I read your article on creating raised panels with your table saw
http://www.sawdustersplace.com/Raisedpanels/Raisedpanels.HTM

I've seen this before, so I Googled for some written resources, and sure enough, your page came up as the second link (Google sear: raised panel + table saw)

Anyway, I have a couple questions for ya.

1. what do you do to ensure the edge of the panel is the correct thickness to fit into the groove of the rails and stiles?
In the "learn" section of this site there is a Rockler article on using "cope and stick" joints, and the "stick" part of the joint actually ends up creating the groove for the panel as well as being a part of the joinery. I'm curious if your table saw technique would fit in to this scenario.

2. what kind of joint do you use for assembly of the rails and stiles? (and, what are alternatives... i.e. biscuits?)

wow, I just looked at the prices router bits to do this sort of work... a bit expensive. I guess I am looking for a pure table saw alternative - which your page covers, but it brings me back to joinery for the frame, and matching the edge of the panel to the groove of the frame.

thanks

- Brad

To ensure that the thickness of the edge is right, it's important to start with thickness-planed panels of a uniform & known thickness. Then, as I run each progressive pass, I watch the thickness of the edge - it thins on each pass. I sneak up to on last pass, leaving it a titch thick so the finish sanding will bring it to the right thickness.

Panels made this way work perfectly well with Cope-And-Stick (tongue and groove) joinery, just as do panels made with a shaper or giant router bit.

The rails & stiles may be joined using mortise-and-tenon joints, foxtails, or biscuits, or dowels, or half-laps, or saddle joints, or miters, or splined miters, or lapped miters, or tongue-and-groove cope-and-stick joints, or exotic Japanese joints, or sliding dovetails, or nearly anything you can imagine.

-- Tim --

Jerry will likely give you a much more thorough answer, but here's my experience:

>1. what do you do to ensure the edge of the panel is the
>correct thickness to fit into the groove of the rails and
>stiles?

The table saw panel raising technique is done in stages anyway so it's really just a matter of stopping when you reach that thickness. The thickness of your panel plays a pretty big role, here, though.

If you're sticking a 3/4" panel into a 3/4" frame and you want the field to be proud of the frame, it's not a big problem. You just keep goin till the edge fits in the groove.

If you don't want it to be proud, you have a couple choices: Thinner panel, or back cut. Thinner panel is the way I went on my bathroom hanging cupboard. In that case, I just went with 5/8" thick panels and did the same thing - went till it fit the groove. The placement of the groove has a lot to do with this, as well. If it starts 1/4" back from the face of the frame, then that's how tall yer blade will be in the end if you want it flush.

As for back cutting. A 3/4" thick panel in a 3/4" thick frame with a flush field would need some kind of relief in the back. If yer groove's 1/4" in the center of the rails and stiles, you'd raise the panel as normal - stopping with the saw blade at a bout 1/4" (the distance from the front of the frame to the start of the groove). Then you'd have to "relieve" the back side of the panel to get it to fit the groove. This can be done with a rabbet or another raised panel. You can vary the feed angle to get a steeper/shallower curve on the backside - some antique furniture is done with a pretty tight radius back cut on the panels. But it's usually easier just to rabbet it.

>2. what kind of joint do you use for assembly of the rails
>and stiles? (and, what are alternatives... i.e. biscuits?)

If you're looking for a TS-only one, then a straight tongue and groove method is probably easiest. The next choice would be a bridle joint. Third would be mortise and tenon - but the mortise couldn't be done on the TS. A bridle joint could be, though. Just run a groove on all your rails and stiles, then "cope" the ends of your rails to form a tongue to fit the groove. For a bridle, you'd raise the blade and "deepen" the groove on the ends of the stiles, and "lengthen" the tongue on the rails to form a tenon that fits. I'm really condensing, but I hope it makes sense

Jason Beam
Sacramento, CA

In loving memory of Robert Bolton. We'll all miss you, Sir.

1. what do you do to ensure the edge of the panel is the
correct thickness to fit into the groove of the rails and
stiles?

Test cuts and test fits. If you are using a panel raising jig on the table saw, then make a test cut or two with stock that is the same thickness as your panel. Test fit the trial panel until it slides easily, but not loosely, into the rail and stile groove. Then cut the keeper panels.

If you are cove cutting your panels on the table saw, just test fit the panel after every pass when it gets close to final dimension...known as "sneaking up" on the cut.

2. What kind of joint do you use for assembly of the rails
and stiles? (and, what are alternatives... i.e. biscuits?)

I generally use either cope and stick joinery or stub tenon and groove. The cope and stick is usually when I'm using a panel raising bit in the router table. If you don't have one or if you are using flat panels, then the stub tenon and groove joint works well. Cut the grooves first and then size the tenons to fit.

Biscuits, dowels or even a Festool Domino (if you have a spare $1000 laying around) will work but that will require stopped grooves. Loose tenons would also work but I don't see any advantage in ease of construction or holding power.

BTW, you will wait a long time to hear Jerry recommend biscuits.

wow, I just looked at the prices router bits to do this sort
of work... a bit expensive. I guess I am looking for a pure
table saw alternative - which your page covers, but it
brings me back to joinery for the frame, and matching the
edge of the panel to the groove of the frame.

Yep, those bits and especially the panel raising sets are kinda pricey. But, I'd advise you to wait until you can get a good set and you will be happy with the purchase. Cheap router bits scare the bejeebers out of me, anyway.

BTW, a vertical panel raising it is cheaper than a winged one but will not give as clean a cut. It does, however require less hp if you don't have at least a 2.25 hp VS router.

The TS method, either straight or coped, works well and produces attractive panels.

Hope this helped.

Cody
Tyler, TX

I think I will go with loose tenon joinery on this one... that will give me two new things in one project

- Brad