My next project involves some pieces of hard maple 2.5" thick - thus the desire for 5HP. Besides it's only $100 upgrade on the grizz - I'm 31 now - I figure this table saw ought to last me 40 years. $100 seems cheap. Actually the $1,200 for a cabinet saw seems cheap vs. buying the $550 contractor's saw I have now & wanting to upgrade...

I guess I'm leaning towards the 10" grizz - I can upgrade the fence & add a sliding table for less than the PM 2000 initial cost.

David

The aftermarket $100 splitter is NOT the same as a riving knife. It may look like one, but it's just a purdy lookin' splitter. Very different animals. I just wouldn't want you to end up buying it and discovering this after the fact.

A true riving knife sits below the top of the blade at all times. That reduces the frequency of removal for non-through cuts. According to European rules, the knife must be within 1/4" of the blade at ALL times. That usually means it raises and lowers with the blade automatically.

Splitters just sit there, uncoupled with the blade in any way. They usually have to be removed for non-through cuts. The aftermarket one you mention also has the kickback prawls mounted to it and they cannot be removed from the splitter itself. Sometimes the prawls get in the way but having a splitter would still be useful like raising panels or most non-through cuts.

Hope this info is helpful

Jason Beam
Sacramento, CA

I knew this guy named Allan. He thought of me as his son. May he rest in peace. I'll miss you, Sir.

In loving memory of Robert Bolton. We'll all miss you, Sir.

It functions in all other ways as a riving knife (raises and lowers and angles with the blade) but sits higher on the blade for some reason.
This means the knife needs to be removed for non through cuts.
Why they did this is beyond me as probably the best feature of a riving knife is it's ability to almost never need you to remove it (hence keeping your saw much safer)...I guess you could cut the top off the thing but what were they thinking?!
Removing the top of the splitter would also remove your ability to attach the guard and anti-kickback pawls.

The grizzly knife is at least designed as it should be.
Theres a lot of things I've needed more than 10" cutting capacity for because for whatever reason I've done a lot of outdoor projects.
That said I'd rather have a 10" table saw and a bandsaw for those moments than a 12" table saw and a jigsaw.

I would be very tempted by the 12" griz. I'd also want to see it first.
The price differences still make me nervous no mater what griz fans say about them. That may well be just me though.

As for the fence, I don't think it's as good as a bies (but then what is?)...But I also don't think it's bad by a long shot.
The only negatives I ever heard about it were (and I have no experience of them remember...This is what I read in a magazine) a tiny discrepancy from side to side in lock down of the fence piece.
In other words, nudge the far end of the fence right, lock it down...measure from the mitre slot to the fence in both fore and aft positions.
Unlock. Now nudge it left and lock and you'll see a slight difference in where the lock grabbed the fence in relation to the guide tube end of the measurement...so a gap has been closed - or opened depending on which way you last moved the fence before lockdown.
Bies fences don't do this and I doubt the griz ones even if they do do it, do it enough to cause a hazzard.
Would be annoying to have that constantly on your mind and need to tap the fence far side to the right to prevent pinch though.

Bet some griz owners could give some first hand info on that though. Maybe take a measurment or two.

Rob.

I had considered them, but I figured if I was going to spend the $$ for the 5HP Delta X or General, I'd go with the PM2000 for the riving knife.

If PM's knife doesn't ride below the blade, disregard it and move on. The arbor size on the Grizzly is 1" and your blade costs will sky rocket as a result. I like the Grizzly for the outfeed and side tables as well as the riving knife, but I would seriously call them and see if they have a 10" version coming out soon. Unless you absolutely have to get a cabinet saw this minute, waiting a little while wouldn't be too bad.

You may be able to run a 10" blade with a sizing adapter on the arbor, but I don't recommend it, and the riving knife will probably get in the way.

If you have to have a saw right now, see about buying one used, delta, grizzly or others. I picked up a Delta cabinet saw for 600 on ebay. Its been great. When I'm ready to buy a brand new saw, maybe when I move, I will probably be able to get my money back on this one, but I'm happy with my used one for now.

Are you wired for 220 already? Don't forget to figure that into your cost equations if you aren't.

Regards,

Brodie

Regards,

I suppose that is a good part of the reason why I still have all my parts. I don't rely on somebody else to retain them.

But that's me. Your mileage will likely vary.

Sonny Edmonds
Saugus, CA
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"Lurkimus turdius orifus"

Welcome to the Forum!

"Come to think of it, I don't even have a freekin guard on my blade."

Yeah, I know, you're cool, and you still have all 12 fingers....

But lots of newbies are reading this. When I first started, I read about how people actually worked, and figured I could get away without all the precautions. Maybe I could, now, but then, if I'd followed all the examples of the veterans, I'd be typing twenty percent slower now...

Thank goodness I scared myself straight, launching kickbacks over my shoulder (yes, several times), and almost having my hand follow a wedged pushstick right into the blade. After that, I said 'I don't care how the lifers work, I'm doing what feels safe'.

My point is, we need to be careful what we say, cuz believe it or not, some people are actually listening, and believe us...

Thanks,

Bill

"Therefore the wisest of all mortal men
said he knew naught, but that he naught did know;
and the great mocking master mocked not then
when he said 'Truth is buried deep below.'"

"But that's me. Your mileage will likely vary."

Folks can't learn common sense, no matter how many books or years in collage they spend tryin.

And it's 12 toes, not 12 fingers. LOL!

The bottom line is: I don't rely on any one or any thing for my safety. I rely on myself. Afterall, I am the one who pushes that green button.
Blade guards obstruct being able to see the blade. And they interfear with using push sticks, push blocks, and stock feeders.
Splitters and riving knives will lull a person into thinking they don't have to clear the work well beyond the blade.

Kickbacks over your shoulder? Bro, your shoulder was in the "Line of Fire" for the kicked stock to go over your shoulder.

Sonny Edmonds
Saugus, CA
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"Lurkimus turdius orifus"

Welcome to the Forum!

And it's 12 toes, not 12 fingers. LOL!

You think that's something? How about this from 2 Samuel 21:20:

And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

"Born to the giant meant that he was Goliath's son...a Philistine. King David's nephew Jonathan slew him.

Just a bit of Jewish history for ya.

Cody
Tyler, TX

And did he buy the powermatic or the griz?

Rob.

I knew David slain (slu?) Goliath with a rock to the temple from his slingshot. But I didn't know Goliath had a son.

Maybe he was an egg rancher and gave us the dozen eggs we still use today? Or the four and twenty black birds baked in a pie?
I recon he could count to 10 with out using his thumbs.

Sonny Edmonds
Saugus, CA
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"Lurkimus turdius orifus"

Welcome to the Forum!

Anyway - I'd definitely give one of my toes for the 2000, probably one of my fingers if I didn't have to pay the bill. They have the 5HP in stock w/ 52" fence for $2,395. It was a work of art. Beautiful machine, smooth, the quick change guard / riving knife really was quick change. The miter guage was pretty cool as well (positive stops at every 1 degree).

While there, I looked at the General international - 3HP for $1,600. Stepping up to the 5HP required a made in canada model & was as much as the PM.

They don't even stock the Delta machines anymore - too many qaulity issues. Also said it took much longer to get parts now since B&D bought them.

I was heading towards the 10" Grizz, until I saw the PM in person. I guess an extra $1,200 over 20 years..... Sometimes you can't really justify the cost, just get it because you want it.

Too bad B&D is putting Delta's name in the trashcan. My Unisaw platinum edition was the last year before the X5 series came out. It's a 5 HP model. Can't slow it down, never going to stop it. So 5 ponies in your new PowerMatic should have you smiling into your grave (long away may that be!).

Justify?
Let's say you have 50 years till you decide to stop doing woodworking.
At $2400 divided by 50 you'll be spending $480 per year, or $40 per month on the heart of your wood shop.
Doesn't sound so bad for all the happiness it will give back. Say nothing of the quality of the works you will create with it.

GO FOR IT!

Sonny Edmonds
Saugus, CA
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"Lurkimus turdius orifus"

Welcome to the Forum!

I get this to be $48 per year, which is 4 bucks a month!

----------
quidquid latine dictum sit...

$48 per year is a pretty good deal for a top notch saw.

(looks like I was responding simultaneously, sorry for redundancy)

I stand corrected. I must have hit the zero one to many times your Honor.

Does this mean I have to move to Floriduh and live next to O.J.?
Or is the ballif going to whack my pee-pee?

Sonny Edmonds
Saugus, CA
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"Lurkimus turdius orifus"

Welcome to the Forum!

It worked for me - course the inheritance money swayed HER decision!

If you can afford it and have the bigger is better mentaility I have - go with 5 ponies, sometimes the misguided mindset of having the biggest in the neighborhood makes me sleep better at night

Rob.

Regards,

Greg

Picked up the PM2000 5HP 1 phase last night. Up to 1am putting her together. Tonight I have to run a new outlet so I can fire her up. Looking forward to it.

hazmat