Jointery, Before I get stupid....

[Sonny Edmonds]

...I'm going to ask.
Can any of you Gents tell me if you've ever used or seen a power feeder used on a jointer?
I am mostly wondering if there would be any advantage/disadvantage to trying it.
Or do you feel it is something best done by hand so the human touch is invoked for the varying load I seem to encounter when I have done some of my roughed-out burl cuts. And some reclaimed oak from pallets.
Being as I've been face jointing and then edge jointing a lot of wood I gather and it's all rough and usually dry as a popcorn fart, it's pretty tough.
So far they have been coming out fine, but me being me, I'm always pondering something different.
So I thought I'd ask.
I have several little stacks of stickered wood stuck here and there since I got the new jointer. I'm wondering why I waited so long to get one of these. (Oh yeah, that's right, money.)

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sonny

[MadMark]

Generally jointing is an edge operation. A power feeder is unstable on a tall thin piece and this is why you don't usually see them.

M

[Lou_williams]

Mark,

Have you ever read on of my posts on Jointing, You don't own one, don't see a need for one don't understand how or why it is used. Don't make statements about a tool you know nothing about.

Sunny, Yes a power feeder could realy help with the face jointing of your stack. With a power feeder I would take more passes with very small cuts. But, I would also not rush into doing the whole stack.

Wood keeps moving over time. Even if you joint all your stock then re sticker it and then 4 month from now go to use one, you will find that their might be a bit of a cup twist or bow introduced by the changes in the mosture content.

I joint plane, and size stock as I need it for a project. That is the real power of a jointer. You need up with stock that is straight square and uniform in thickness. When you go to make the joints. It is easy to make a jig for a routed tendon when you don't have to accout for slight changes from piece to peice.

The Main advantage of a power feeder for the Jointer is that It keeps the hands away from one of the most dangerous tools in the shop. Those spinning very sharp edges are just as bad or worse than the blade on your saw. Depending on the size of the power feeder It could be used to edge Joint the stock as well. YOu face joint the stock. Then use the jointed face agains the fence. You power feeder would be set up to keep the stock against the fence and down on the cutter.

You would want to use a small feeder. The size might or might not let you use it in the 90 degree position.

[Phil B]

A couple of things to note when using a power feeder on the jointer. First you can't put any "english" on the board, the feeder grabs it as is and goes about it's job. It doesn't care if you had no intention of face jointing the first few inches due to a bow etcetera. The second is if the table and knives aren't set to be nearly perfect you will notice it on the jointed face. It appears (to me) that because the feed is more consistent than hand feeding it lets you see any flaws in your alignment much more so than hand feeding does.

Edge jointing is pretty easy, doesn't require a lot of power etc so I haven't power fed that. A power feeder will produce a smoother more consistent face surface than hand feeding.

PMB

[Sonny]

Lou,
Thanks! I don't know if I'll go to the bother of trying it or not at this point as I don't have much to work with in the way of wood.
But if I do get a volume to do, I might.
But I'll heed your recommendation of "as needed" so I don't make a bunch of precision chips.
I fully agree with the dangers, I think those blades would do even worse damage than a saw blade. I'd reckon a saw would zip and it's off.
But those blades would chew and might even draw you into it more before you could pull back what's left.
The wood I have run over it is what most would consider trash or firewood.
Mostly trying it out and seeing what was under the surface. And even though it gives me the willies to face joint, it's sure the right tool for the job.
Once the face is flat I jointed the edges and ran them through the planer.
By gollie, they look like boards. Then I faced off some burl stock, squared it up and jointed the edges. Looks like curlly grained boards.
I have a versa feeder, and am always looking for more, ahem, versa-tillity out of it. It's pretty small as feeders go and has variable speed. But might be more trouble than it's worth to try and adapt it to the jointer.
The operation of a jointer seems akin to that of a shaper as far as the feeder is concerned. And it works admirably for saw work and router table feeding.
So naturally.....me being me, I figured it would be a good idea to ask, just in case I was entertaining a stupid thought.
Well it's finally time to go home from the night shift. Hallaluleah!
Thanks for the input.

Sonny

[Sonny]

Phil,
Thanks! Yeah the edge work seems to be rather easy so far. But that consistant feed is what was drawing my attention to power feeding the stock.
The feeder made a world of difference for my molding work I did.
I suppose you could say it's my daydreaming of what if....
And like I noted to Lou, I'd need to get together a stack of stock to warrant it.
Thank you for your responce.

Sonny

[mperata]

Sonny

What do you mount the base of the versa-feeder to. Is there a common or movable base available so it could be moved between the TS, shaper, jointer et al. - or does the feeder need to be physically mounted to the tool it is being used on.

[Sonny]

I looked at the universal base they offer and decided to make my own.
I used a piece of 5/8" cold rolled steel (I thought it was 3/4" at first) x 6" x 8" and drilled and tapped a 1" on center 5/16" hole pattern, except under the corner for the feeders base.
Then I tapped all the holes with a 3/8 x 18 TPI tap all the way through.
I wound up drilling one of these out to 1/2" and mounted a bar under the wing of my open winged TS to clamp it to the saw. (I absolutely will not defile the old saw with any holes or other damage. Any modifications go into the added piece(s).)
Later, I added two expandable featherboard miter track blocks to this base and now can mount it to the tables by clamping it in a miter slot. So far that has served me well to fit it for feeding the router table. And I just use the 1/2" hole for the TS feeding.

I haven't got a shaper, but that is something Delta suggest's it can be used on. Even if I did have, I still could not bring myself to drill any table, bed, or other finely machined cast iron surface intended as a feeding surface.
I would build an extension up from the base for a mounting pad for it or figure some other way. Should I ever utillize it on the jointer, or figure a way to clamp it onto the machine.

The base "they" make for it is 1/4" plate with a bunch of holes that, I belive, are through holes and no threads.
I wanted a large strong surface for a foundation for the feeder that could spread the load over a broader surface. Yet still be moveable.
I would never recommend drilling a TS top or any other table to mount a feeder on, unless you are positive it will never need be removed and the location is deffinate. I just love my tools to much to wreck them that way.
But, that's me. How anyone else does it is up to them.
So that's the thousand words, here's a picture. Where you see the feeder on the saw wing, click on the picture. It will pop up big on your screes and you can see the feeders base when clamped to the open wing of the TS. http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/ts1.htm
I hope this helps you with yours.

Sonny

[Glen]

Guys,

Good post. But I would have answered as Mark did. Perhaps out of ignorance and I own a jointer. I personaly find it more trouble than its worth. My cabinet saw with a quality blade produces an edge of sufficient quality for edge glueing in my opinion. Any "exposed" edges are typically profiled or sanded\scraped anyway.
I honestly have not used mine in several years. This I believe is the result of purchasing a high end TS and accessaries, now I'm not looking to bust that open again, but it was very shortly thereafter I ceased to use the jointer. Maybe a case for the extra $ initialy.

Glen

[Lou_williams]

Glen,

My jointer is the second most used tool in my shop. But I don't remember the last time I used it for edge gluing. As we all know there are lots of different ways to do things. I don't have a router table. I didn't even use a router for most of my woodworking life. My first experiences were very bad. I bought a sears router and bit set. HSS without bearings and all it did is burn my wood. I put the thing away and didn't even look a router again until about 8 years ago. I bought a Leigh jig and needed a real router to use it.

There a lots of tools that people don't use that could be very valuable if they knew how to get the most out of them. No criticism intended. I had a poor jointer when I started and didn't use it much because it didn't really have the power to face joint a hardwood board.

In my opinion and it is my opinion the jointer is the equivalent to what the hand plane was to the old time woodworker. You can build nice stuff without one but it is much easier with it.

With my current TS setup I can rip a board that doesn't look like it needs to be jointed. And many times that is what I do, take the stock off the ts and use it. But, before that first rip on the saw it gets squared on the jointer planner. The forth side off the saw is good enough for most applications.

[dicklaxt]

With my minimal experience ,I find that I have also used the jointer much more than i thought I would.................. Sonny you sure got some mileage out of this post!!!!

Just had a piece of apple pie w/ice cream so I'm set for tonight but Dentist scheduled for morn 2 hours.

Dick

[Glen]

Lou,

Okay so kick the pedestal out from under me, fine. Just "funnin"
ya, you know me better. Now I'm going to learn something here, I can just feel it comming on. As I said on another posting I've been in somewhat of a rut or very set in how I do things. So I'm all ears.
Now; If I were to "face" a piece of stock I'd be prone to pass it through a surface planer never considering a jointer. Mines only an 8". I ordinarly use a cabinet scraper as a last and finishing pass. So to face stock with a jointer has me scratching body parts. Perhaps this is where the power feed comes into play?
If this is the case then you've essentialy created a surface planer, no?

Glen

[Phil B]

It is beginning to look like a little basic info is needed here - so here it is.

Stock Preparation 101:

1. In order to create stock that is straight, flat, and of consistent thickness one must "dress" all four sides of the stock (the following could be done with hand planes as well).

2. The first operation is to create a flat and straight reference FACE, this is done on a jointer. This will remove any cup, twist, or bow on that face of the stock.

3. The next step (since you are already at the jointer) is to create an EDGE that is 90 degrees to the reference FACE. This is done with the jointer fence set at 90 degrees with the reference FACE against the fence. Now the stock is "dressed" on two sides.

4. To create stock of consistent thickness a planer is used, with the reference FACE down (away from the planer knives) the stock is fed into the planer which will produce a FACE parallel to the reference edge; this will remove any remaining cup, twist, or bow on that face of the stock..

5. To create stock with the second edge parallel to the jointed edge a tablesaw is used. If the cut quality is sufficiently smooth and straight no further work need be done. If not, a single pass across the jointer on the sawn edge will give you a smooth edge.

End:

Addendum:
If you think your stock is straight, flat, and of consistent thickness without going through this basic process you are mistaken. It may however be dressed enough for your particular application.

PMB
http://benchmark.20m.com

[Sonny]

Phil,
Bravo! Well put!
And eggzacary as I have been doing. Because I've been following the correct methods all along, long before the actual obtaining of the jointer.
That is how I was sure the aquiring of a jointer would be the right way to prep my rough sawn stock.
I thought a drum sander would be benificial, and it was.
But to get to where I need the rough sawn wood to be it wasn't the correct method. Not at all.
Mostly because in order to achieve that end, it would have required something more along the lines of a truely industrial sanding machine. And not have addressed the edge either.
A learning curve for me. And one I am progressing on well, I think.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertice of woodworking, I do appreciate it.

Sonny

[Glen]

Phil.

I graduated WW101 about 20-25yrs ago. I use a jig\sled in conjunction with the surface planer to achieve what you seem to use the jointer for. I'm not disputing the edgeing function though I don't use it.Its the "faceing" issue.
And another jig\sled with the TS to straighten out those curve balls. I also intentionaly add a slight angle, couple degrees to the edge when edge jointing (butt). However this ole dog has been likeing the glue joint cutter on the shaper lately.
Don't like it when raising panels though. So point is; I've been straightening lumber for many a year. The results have always been "good enough" for high-end repro. furniture pieces.
Not lookin for a pissin match, but a newbie I'm not. I can straight a stick. Most twisted boards end up in the cull pile though.

Glen

[Phil B]

Glen,
If you are using a standard glue joint cutter on a shaper you might want to switch to a "wave" profile. These profiles are a bunch of little sawtooths /\/\/\/\/\ or little wave shapes ~~~~~~~. The benefit of them is than they remove less material and when you cut down though a board (like when raising panels) the glue-line transition is basically unnoticeable.

You can also edge joint on a shaper but the fence setup it a little tricky unless you have made a setup gauge. A standard straight cutter will work pretty good here but you could also step up into a spiral cutter, either in single blade inserts or the little staggered square inserts for better cuts.

For the record:
There is of course more than one way to dress stock, what I outlined is the traditional power tool method. If you have a way of doing it that you prefer then by all means use it. I got the impression when I read the previous posts there was a certain lack of understanding of a fundamental woodworking process.

PMB
http://benchmark.20m.com

[Lou_williams]

Glen,

As I said in my post there are lots of ways to skin a cat. And we each find our own best practice. For me I would be more difficult to build and set the planner jig (for those that don't know this one there was a article in Fine Woodworking on the subject a fw years ago), than to just make a couple of passes over the jointer. Face jointing is how I spend most of the time on the jointer.

What I find is that the planner can take out lots of the issues that you see with stock, but the long bow is hard with this method unless you have a very long sled. Makes it hard to handle.

The basic design of the jointer makes this almost mute. The relationship between the outfeed table and the blade give you flat true stock without any adjustment required. I find it fast and easy. But, Like I said, I didn't use a router until a few years ago. Each to their own.

My issue with Mark was he does not own one and has not use one. There are lots of questions here that I don't respond to because I don't have the experience with the tool to give a good answer.

95% of Marks post are right on target but, on this subject I don't think he has much to add.

[Glen]

Guys,

The cat is skinned......lets BBQ.
PBH, a big part of what I ineffectively said was I'm a stick stuck in the mud. On vacation next week, maybe I'll revisit my jointer, gotta find it, then go back to my way, hahaha. Hey it works for me and its become pretty mindless. Since I most often don't work from plans this helps with cranium clutter.
Sonny, this is your fault......of course!
So Lou are you agreeing that by adding a power feeder you've effectively created a planer? one of my original points\questions.
Oh and PBH, I've seen cutters as you've described, maybe I'll drop the coin for one and try it. I've done some edge jointing with the shaper, that straight cutter with a rub coller is also critical for shaping crowns, arches and such. Always thought it best to "rough" it in this way.

Glen

[Lou_williams]

"So Lou are you agreeing that by adding a power feeder you've effectively created a planer? one of my original
points\questions."

No, The planner drive rollers are on the infeed and there are rollers bridging accross the cutters. The power feeder would be place on the outfeed side of the jointer that would allow the smooth feed and constant speed for a nice smooth cut but still allow the full function of the jointer to come to play.

[Burt]

Lou,

I'm not a jointer fan but if a power feed were used on a jointer, it would have to have at least one wheel on the infeed side of the cutter. This is the only practical way to hold the board properly in place. You would need pressure on both the infeed and outfeed sides.

[Lou_williams]

No, I would not set it up that way. The only time you put pressue at all on the infeed side is before the stock reaches the outfeed table. From that point you only want down pressure on the outfeed. That is how the tool gives you a flat edge. Putting pressure on both would not allow it to rid the board of some of the defects. The only point of the feeder is to take the stock through after it is started.

[Sonny]

Man did that ever bring forth some great input. And your right Glen, it's all my fault. If it can be called a "fault". Here's what I began to write last night and finished tonight.
So simmer down, settle in, and listen to this:

I highly value your inputs!
Knowledge is power, and on this forum, I feel, that power is immense.

It is not easy for me to ask, and never was. But the comfort and camaraderie in the experience found here on this forum has given me the courage to do so.

That, Gents, speaks very highly of my thoughts of each of you, and what you all have helped me to learn in all of our exchanges.

Even when ego’s get involved there is a lively and deep thought invoking process underlying it all. The vastness of the years of experience comes forward as we banter it out and gently nudge each other.
As if to slap a hand on a shoulder or even slap a knee like we were all sitting on a proverbial porch sipping cool lemonade or iced tea.
And there is always an open chair and more time for the folks stopping by, because it is an open and friendly forum.

We each return to our individual shops with yet more knowledge drawn from the exchanges. I know I sure do, anyway.

Mad Mark,
No, I wouldn’t use the feeder to drive for edge jointing like you envision with a feeder perched on a precarious top edge of a board. Edge jointing is very easy.
If I was to use it this way the feeder would be turned to 90 degrees to the knives and slightly canted downward on the outfeed direction to keep the wood tight to the infeed and outfeed tables, clamping it between the feeders wheels and the fence. The same way as in use on a table saw where it holds and feeds the stock snug to the fence.
But I’d have to be doing one heck of a pile to want to do that. Because of the ease of actual edge jointing.

Lou and Phil,
Thank you for your understanding of what my purpose of the post was about, face jointing and using a power feeder to achieve a constant (or at least more consistent) feed rate to achieve a higher quality of face jointing.
You both answered the question for me admirably. And fueled my thought processes as well.
For example the “English” Phil mentioned, a term many a good pool shooter is well familiar with, as it relates to our endeavors to work a hunk of nature’s material into a shape or form above what it first comes to us as. The hazard of reviling our machinery’s limits to produce a shortcut to that end we can only achieve with skill and imagination and a good deal of our own effort.
The final finish is in fact the culmination of the human touch applied with good old elbow grease. Nothing in a can or box can effect that end. They help, but it is we and the luck of nature being with us to get there.
We conjure up machines and conglomerations to ease the task, but in the end we put the seal of our being in those last wipes of that surface.

And yes Glen,
You have a fine saw and may not feel the need for the step of jointing any longer. I too have gotten by without the tool and I’d say it isn’t a necessity, but old friend it sure makes my efforts easier with the path I’m treading.
I have many other tools available but seldom used any longer. Not abandoned by me by any means. Revered, yet silent until that certain time when it is the right tool for the job.
When no conjured metal mass and wires can quite do as easily.
When the call is for a little sweat and skill beyond mental conjuring and jigging to do what a few minutes of good old elbow grease with an old friend on the shelf can do.
I could easily get that flat surface with a plane and scraper and many hours of work. Or I can use a machine to do all those strokes in a few seconds of concentrated peril that could maim me for life, should I let my flesh and bone meet with the equation.
Fortunately for me, I’ve only found some nasty reminders that allowed me to heal and remember without any major losses.

So Gents,
Yep I could make a mount to put the feeder on the side of the jointer so it could do what it is intended to do. I can build a base for it to mount to and with it’s jointing I could make it feed for face jointing (or planing, if you prefer) and also for edge jointing as well.
Would it be worth the time and effort? If I was to need to do a ton of surface prep for some wood to go out for a rack of lumber from rough, to ready to finish, probably.
But for what I do, really probably not.

Based on the knowledge you have shared with me time will tell if I will do so or not. But I wondered and tapped into your experiences and found much was offered from both sides of the question.

You all make me feel good about asking it, and I feel I know you each a little better for it.

Thank You for sharing your knowledge with me.

And##### have you polished off the rest of that apple pie and ice cream? Or did the kids get it afore Ya?

There’s a big smile on this mans face that doesn’t want to go away. And I feel like I was in a jaw secession with a bunch of really good friends.
Never was there any intent to cause a ruckus. But the key people I knew could help me came through for me.
Thank You friends.

Sonny

[Glen]

All,

This post, string, thread, call it what you will, is a prime example of how an exchange can take place when varied opinions
merge. I'm still at odds with Lou's post, guess this is one of those situations where I'd have to see it to understand it cuz I'm missing something about the setup\operation, I too thought the infeed table pressure was critical to eliminate any chatter effects, outfeed table pressure being understood. But the think tank was definately given a good stir, damn near more effective than a boot in the a$$, sometimes.
MadMark, seems Lou told you to put a clamp on it in so many words. Your silence is ear shattering, perfect.

G

[Phil B]

Glen,
My feeder is normally on my saw / shaper but when I do use it on the jointer I set the leading wheel right above the center of the jointer cutter head. That's the way it made sense to me and it seems to work with that setup. The infeed pressure you mention is accomplished very easily by hand, the pressure is quite light (in my technique anyway).

If one were to use a feeder of edge work (which I wouldn't), I would imagine the setup would be different, more or less exactly the same as a shaper but rotated 90 degrees.

PMB
http://benchmark.20m.com

[Sonny]

...as well Phil.
Although using the feeder for face jointing was my goal. I too wouldn't see any merit in using it for edge jointing. That step is much easier than face jointing operations.
I've only had this tool since last Friday, but I'm using it more and more. It's value in the processes makes me wonder about my ignorance in waiting so long to get it.
I tend to use it and my other power tools very conservatively. For example I rarely take more than a 1/64" cut at a time with either the planer or jointer. It adds repeat passes, but I feel it saves the machines from undue stress. I'm not in that much of a hurry anyway.
Woodworking is fun and interesting to me. But not a livelyhood.
I've only recently picked it back up in the last year. Do mostly to not having a solid place to build the shop. This shop is about 2 1/2 years in the making now. But now matter where I've lived I've had some sort of a shop, either a shed I'd drag in and out of to use a back porch area, or whatnot.
I was raised with my Dad's shop and spent much of my childhood tinkering from a very early age.
So I'm literally honeing the rust off myself as well as my older and inherited tooling. And tuning in the newer equipment.
Out of desire to "Do It Myself" for the home remodeling, and building for my Grand Daughters, then Grand Son's.
I hone myself with a project akin to the goal project prior. Often on a smaller scale, but using the same joints and techniques that I'll use for the goal project.

Agian, I had no intention of starting a ruckus, I was seeking the advice of yourself, Glen, and Lou (aka: Mr. Jointer, :D) for I have grown to highly respect your combined knowledges.
And not am I disappointed, for a vast amount of knowledge has come forth on this posting. And a lot has been gained by myself from your responces, and even the banter.
I am sorry to Glen as he did seem to get a bit badgered here. But I also take this as a bit of funnin' as well.
Thank you all for your sharing. And as well for putting up with me, and the help.

Sonny

PS: You fellers on the East Coast get up much earlier than us on the West Coast, no fair. :D

[Glen]

Hey Sonny,

I don't dish out what I can't take on the chin. I don't think you can actively post responses with out taking a few hits. I'm nowhere above the learning stage.
I believe it was best phrased "To teach is to learn". So it goes

Glen

[MadMark]

I just read back thru this entire thread and it seems that my original comment is correct. You don't normally use a power feeder when edge jointing. Face jointing yes, but not normally edge.

Now Lou, just because I don't *own* a jointer now doesn't mean that I've never had one or never used one.

If my answer was accurate, what difference does it make if I have that particular tool in my shop or no?

M

[Sonny]

...Yep we all take some rash. And so it goes.
I'm amazed at this thread. Sure a big can of worms I opened.
Seems they will never stop crawling out of the can my friend.
But through it all I've learned a valueable lot.
Appears the sun just won't set on this day on the porch.
As Mad Mark is back agian.
Again I am sorry for any pains inflicted my friend.
But lookie here, you just may dig out your jointer and take another look at it, this time with a different perspective.
If we weren't kitty corner across the US I'd be there to help you. If you would like that is, I'd never mean to impose.
Overall it has been interesting and fun, actually.
Someday we will recall this and think along the lines of "Boy, remember when Sonny started that ruckus over jointers?"
But it is a break from the TS controversy.
Ha, Ha. :D

Now on to MM.
Sonny

[Lou_williams]

Glen,

I was never my intent to take a swing at you. I respect your post much more than you will ever know. I have learned much from your input and value it highly.

I was having what I thought was a discussion of different points on this subject. As I tried to say many times, I do things my way and others do things their way. My intension was to discuss why I do it my way.

So I don't intend to answer Mark's post and we can close this one down.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Mark,
Damn, am I going to have to set it up and do it for you friend?
I am sure I could, as described above, way above. Why?
Because I did it on my TS when using a molding cutter "For radial saws only" on my TS. It is a hell of a jig that sandwiches the stock on edge and drives it across the cutters by using the feeder ON THE EDGE OF THE BOARD.
However, in the case of the jointer the wheels would be pushing the stock against the fence and slightly downward to keep it tight to the table and cutterhead.
The feeder wheels being aimed at the fence.
The practicallity is the issue here, I could do it no dought. I could edge joint with a power feeder. As well as face joint by turning the power head on it's unit joint for conventional driveing of stock.
Would it be worth the effort? Maybe yes, maybe no. As edge jointing is easier normally than face jointing.

The real beauty of the power feeder is in consistancy of feed of the stock so the entire operation, be it cutting, sawing, shapeing, is consistant in speed and therefore more uniform overall. Ideally the entire operation is done at the same speed start to finish, every time. 1 board or 1000 boards.
No edge burning or inconsistancies in the feed rate due to human error or fatigue.

At this point I am bound and sure I will put a mount on the jointer to use the feeder. Not a damn dought in my mind.
After all the effort and knowledge the men who truely know have given to me, at some cost to each other in fact, I'd be a damn worm not to.
The original intent of this post was to seek the knowledge of those who have seen this and done this.
I thought I could, Now I know I can. I'm not embarking on something stupid. I'm in fact about to refine my shop and methods to a finer detail, a higher quality. And increase my personal margin of safety as a bonus.
The power feeder proved to raise the bar on my molding production for the house. I'm sure now with the knowledge I've been given I'm on the right track for the jointer.
The little feeder that could is mobile, I built it's base to that end. So I could use it in other ways.
Just thought I'd seek some input before the effort this time. And it came forth tenfold.
Above and beyond the subject, I have become better aquainted with friends I respect for their knowledge and demonstrated skills, you included.
All in all this is a great place to glean information, based on actual experiance, knowledge of methods, knowledge of tooling and materials, and resources.
I'm glad to be here and allowed to rub elbows with you'all.

Sonny

[Glen]

Lou,

Thought we had this sort of thing "understood". I'm not an overly sensitive sort. I can take being slam dunked, and no thats not what I thought you did. But it is how I learn best sometimes. I huffed some at the ww101 class post, just came across, to me anyway, as a point of condescension. My retaliatory reply was taken at face value and we moved on. I may very well have missed making my point clearly first round, not the first time and don't forsee it being the last, kinda right up there with my spelling errors. Not to mention grammer.
This thread was a nice break from the ole TS issue(s)indeed. This was one of those exchanges where no one was wrong. Except you know who for starting it. This was a healthy exchange as you said.
As I've said this forum is good for me. As I've been in a rutt of sorts. It has me questioning my answers and that is the essence of teaching, I think.

Glen

[Sonny]

I'm a big fan of power feeders. In a two man shop, I now have 5. Four of them are similiar to the "Versa feeder". All of the "Baby power feeders" are made by comatic. I have one that is delta label, 2 that are comatic label and one that is central machinery label. I can't tell and difference in how they perform and parts interchange. The Delta is about $250 and I bought the central machinery thru the Harbor Freight Insider club for $180.

Here is one for you to contemplate. I took a router and set it up horizontally in a table and attached a power feeder. It sure is great for those long router bits.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Sonny,
Yep, I use mine (one) power feeder more and more.
I have invisoned such a horizontal router referencing as you said. How do you like that? I can see where it could have many advantages. In fact a hell of a lot of advantages, at times.
I'm just a dufuss woodworker myself. Mr. Casual do-it-my-selfer in the last stages of my biggest project ever, remodel of the casa.
But there hasn't been a damn thing I haven't done myself except the roofing. I wanted to, but my wife felt I'd kill my troubled knees.
And yep, after I bought the versa feeder I saw them pop up all over identical to Delta. Just different colors.
But it is an affordable feeder for my small time use that I saw as something I could adapt around the work I do.
Anyhow, since your a Sonny, and I'm a Sonny, I'll be sure and add my last name to my posties to discern between us.
Thanks for your input!

Sonny
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/

[Burt]

Sonny,

You can leave your name as Sonny on the forum. 'Sorry I goofed and put your name where mine was suppose to go on the item about the power feeders.

My interest in horizontal router tables came from attempting to cut crown molding and chair rail on a router table. The stock was extremely hard to hold against the fence and push thru the bit. I decided it would be easier to hold the board down than it would be to press it to the fence so I built the first horizontal table. It worked better than holding the board against the fence. Then the idea of using a powerfeeder on the table came along. I made a second table to accomodate the power feed, it was nice but I wanted something more durable so I had a machinist make one for me. It works out just great. I've been using it for about 4 years. It doesn't replace any of my other tables (I have a total of 8 routers in tables), but it does allow me to do a lot of things easier and better.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Burt,
Cool! Jeese louise, eight tables! Major production?
Wow!
I just got my 3rd router today. Now I think I have all I need for the forthcoming project.
Do you suppose you could email me a picture of that horizontal table? I think I get the picture in the words. But a real view would be great. If you can and have the time.
Wow again!

Sonny

[Sonny Edmonds]

...I set it up this last weekend.

It works admirably!!!

Nice steady adjustable feed rate for smooth consistant face jointing stock preparation.
Adjusted for edge jointing gives the same smooth consistant results as well.
Thanks Lou and Phil for your valueable input. I figured it would work, and for both operations. Your inputs convinced me to try it.
Mad Mark fueled my fire to prove it.
And I HAD to do it after all the grief the post caused.
Now I shall make another base for the feeder so I can easily move it back to the main saw/router tables for use there.
End of discussion.
Thank You all for your inputs!

You Know Who

AKA
Sonny

[JohnV]

Well my problem from the get-go is that if you are using a joiner to face plane a board you usually are doing it on the joiner instead of the planer because of the feeder. A feed system by its nature pushes down on the board and thereby straightning it. So you correct cupping etc.. with a joiner. If you use a feed system you will be duplicating the planer.
Now to tell the truth I think that if you take very light cuts on a planer the rollers don't press so hard anyway but I do use the joiner to make those kinds of corrections most of the time.
In summary, while a feeder would be useful it can have drawbacks too even if you work out all the mounting problems. Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.
JohnV