Dymondwood, Yawara, and getting in over my head.

[Rasputin]

Hello,

I am looking to have some Yawara made for my Jujutsu class, and I have decided on Dymondwood as being the best choice for the job. Yawara, being simply a dowel about 1" diameter and 10" long, seems like a perfect job for a lathe. However, here in Baton Rouge, I have come up empty when looking for someone to turn the 10" x 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" turning blocks for me. So I am thinking about buying a lathe just for this purpose. I am almost completely new to woodworking in general.

Home Depot has a RIGID 1/2 hp, 4-speed lathe, with steel stand, for about $300, which is what I am looking to spend. Link follows at the bottom.

So, I guess, here are my questions:

1. Is anyone familiar with Dymondwood (link also at bottom of page)?
2. Would the lathe I am looking at be able to handle the Dymondwood?
3. Do I have any other options?
4. Am I forgetting anything?


Thank you all for your time,

Dave

The Lathe in question:
http://www.ridgidwoodworking.com/products_wl1200.phtml

All you ever wanted to know about Dymondwood:
http://www.hutproducts.com/dwood.html

And, why not, the link to our class:
http://www.heiwashin.org/

[Sonny Edmonds]

Yeah, why don't you get Woodmangler to make them for you. He's in Georgia.
And don't get in over your head next time. :7 (big cheesy grin)
Email: woodmangler@yahoo.com

PS: It could buy you time to make a better choice, and save face from saying you can do something that would cost you a bunch, and take time to learn to do. :7

What the heck is a whatever-it-is stick? I'd bet my 44 magnum could blow your stick in half. :o

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[volleyheads]

Unless you are intersted in wood turning, it may be easier to get someone to make it for you. If you are interested though, the project you want to do is fairly simple and it should be pretty easy a long as the pieces don't have to match exactly. Pretty close is easy, exact matches, makes it a whole new ball game. Marc or a bunch of us could probably get it done for you if you wished, or a local at the turning club near you could as well. Let us know which way you wish to proceed.

Best of luck either way.

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Rasputin]

Thank you, Bill, for the ideas and advice. I will do some research into turning clubs in the Baton Rouge area--does anyone here have any pointers on locating said groups? Nothing I have tried so far has been of much use in finding local help.


And consistency between each one is not at all an issue. As long as they are uniformly 1" diameter, that is all I am looking for.


Yes, Mr. Edmonds, a .44 caliber slug would surely put a pretty big hole in my project. But, since you asked, a Yawara is a hardwood dowel, 10" - 12" long, which is used in Japanese martial arts as a weapon, both to strike an assailant and to aid in joint locks. While not nearly as powerful a weapon as your .44 Magnum, it does have the benefits of being totally silent, 100% legal (even concealed), and of absolutely no danger to anyone except the chosen target. But each tool has its place.


One factor in thinking I might do the work myself is the cost in shipping. Dymondwood is amazingly heavy. Four 10"x1.25"x1.25" pieces came to 5 lbs, and shipping it first to myself, then to whoever will be doing the turning, then back to myself for finishing, then off to the intended owner (if I decide to sell some of them) would certainly eat up any profit I might be able to make from them.


With all of the pen aficionados on this board, I would have figured at least one person would have worked with Dymondwood before, since it is reputed to produce some amazing looking pens. Am I totally alone out here?


Thank you all for your patience and input,

Dave

[Sonny Edmonds]

Dave,
Forums take time, we aren't just waiting with baited breath.
First someone must swim by and see your post, and feel like posting a reply.
I happened onto yours and was curious enough to open it.
I didn't tell ya to tell your class you could do something that was over your head. You put your fanny in that hole in the swamp.
But I did give you a lead to an excellent friend of mine who could most certianly run off what you want because he makes a living with small or large projects, AND is a turner ta boot. Although a begining turner, he is set up and does beautiful work.
If you don't explore the lead, well, that's on you.
But it would cost a lot less than 300 bucks and materials.
Marc is usually online early in the morning.
I'll go you one better, I'll email the link to this thread and I know he'll see it.
But you will have to be patient.
In the mean time, this post shoves it to the top. Kapish?

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[DustyBob]

I've never turned Dymondwood but I understand that it turns like most any hardwood and polishes to a high gloss with minimal finish. Here's a link to the AAW chapters in your area. Contact them and they should be able to help with turning your Yawara and/or getting you started with the turning addiction!

Bayou Woodturners
Serving: Southern Louisiana
Meeting Date: 2nd Saturday
Chapter Web Site: [http://woodturners.com/]
Contact:
Keith Welsh
9909 Martha Ln
River Ridge, LA 70123
504-738-5406
keith@woodturners.com


Magnolia Woodturners
Serving: All Mississippi
Meeting Date: 3rd Saturday
Chapter Web Site: [http://magnoliawoodturners.com]
Contact:
Jan Adams
505 Savanna St
Bogalusia, LA 70427
985-735-9700
janadams@I-55.com

[Rasputin]

Actually, it was in reference to the fact that, although the responses to this point have been quite helpful and appreciated, I was also kinda hoping that someone else out there was acquainted with Dymondwood and its uses, thus the "am I alone" question. I suppose, in hindsight, it could have come across as sounding like a frantic plea for immediate assistance, but I assure you it was not meant as such. Time is not of the essence in this project.

On the off-chance that I do decide to start manufacturing these Yawara for sale, what do you think of the RIGID lathe shown in the link in my first post? When compared to other models around $300, it seems to be quite the deal, but questions abound, like:

--At 134 lbs, will it be heavy enough to quell vibrations?

--Assuming Dymondwood is denser than Mahogany or Walnut, is 1/2 hp enough power to allow me to do the job?

--Is there anything about the RIGID model that you (collectively), with your years of turning expertise, might recognize right away as being garbage?



Thank you, Mr. Edmonds, for the information re: your friend "the Woodmangler". His name is somewhat formidable, but on the strength of your recommendation I am sure I could hardly do better elsewhere. I will contact him as soon as I rule out local options (because of shipping issues).


And lastly, thanks to DustyBob (whose response came in as I was typing this reply) for your info/suggestions. I will check into them post haste.


Dave

[Sonny Edmonds]

OINK! :)

I knew if it was kept afloat somebody would come along.

Dave,
Don't know a blessed thing about that particular lathe, Bud. I can say the Ridgid line, as a whole, is inticeing. They have several things about them I personally find to be advanced.
But it has eggzacary the same thread and pitch as a Craftsman does. Makes me wonder who is making whoose.
1/2 HP would be plenty for what you want, right now. Later on it might be dicey for bigger projects. But still serviceable.
I think for the four speeds offered it might be limiting. The lowest is a tad high for starting a rough chunk unless it has been set up pretty well. (846 RPM might be a tad fast)
The Delta Midi and the Jet mini and the Fisch are all in that range as well. It will get plumb cornfuzing.
I do shy away from Home Depot and even Lowes for tools myself. I have been burned by HD once, and once bitten, twice shy. (DeWalt planer, and one week later, they dropped the line. I had to make my own dust hood for it. :( )
So I deal with my local Mom & Pop tool store. See, they have a vested interest in me and my repeat business. They have become my friends over the years, and it's a good thing for us both.
But I sure won't be living with your choice, you will. It has to suit you ultimately. So what I think don't really amount to beans.
But I got a Delta Midi for my entry into turning. Now I have around 1200 invested in that facette of wood working. But I'm happy with my choices so far.
I don't say that as a gloat either, it's a warning. The lathe is the tip of the iceberg. My chuck cost damn near as much as the lathe with a set of 50 buck chisels. And half of that figure is a sharpening system as well. Then there is more chisles.
But Dave, I will spend more to get the quality I want from my tools. Because they are going to be handed down someday and I don't want to pass on bad stuff to my kids.
The standard repast here has been: to get the best you can afford that suits YOU, because ultimately you will be living with your choice. Not me, not anybody else here, but you friend. Choose wisely.
You don't need some multi-thousand dollar lathe to make bowls. But it could make it more of a pleasure to you to have such a machine.
If the Ridgid fits the bill for you, by all means do get it. But one must concider the long term, for most shop machines will last for 1 to who knows how many decades.
Daddy bear was handed down to my eldest Son just last year. It's 50-60 years old, and to this day a great saw. But I have the big bad wolf out in the shop now. It will last me and my Son's a lifetime. Because my priority was quality.
Will the China made Midi do that? Don't know. But it will suffice for a while for me. Maybe as long as I'm interested in what it can do.

Choose well. :) And welcome to the forum, too.

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[volleyheads]

1. Is anyone familiar with Dymondwood (link also at bottom of page)?

I have seen it at woodcraft etc and seen it turned for pens mostly

2. Would the lathe I am looking at be able to handle the Dymondwood?

yes, most lathes are designed with spindle turning in mind

3. Do I have any other options?

Lathes, tons. Sources for getting it done for you, several, most already mentioned

4. Am I forgetting anything?

In general, I would say of course you have forgotten something ;)
It will all come down to whether or not you wish to try your hand at turning. If you want to then go for it with what you have said you would like to buy. Even a mini lathe could do what you are asking. I would say the mini's are better lathes than the sub $1000 lathes available to you, but they do give you more spinning room. However, unless you are going to do large parts or semi-large bowl turning, the mini should do all you wish from it.

One other thing, I have been thinking about the Dymondwood and wondering if it is the best choice. It may not be that strong to impacts. Another choice would be ash, hard maple, hickory, etc, like they make bats and handles out of. Just a suggestion, only making one and using it will tell for sure. (most likely they would also make a lighter one if that would help.
Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[WoodMangler]

... reading and keeping quiet cause I've never even heard of this wood. :)

[Limey]

Rasputin,
I've a limited experience with Diamondwood and none of martial arts...although I do have a black belt in origami!!
Diamond wood is basically layers of plywood that have been pressure treated (I think) with coloured resins. It does make eye catching pens but it's suitability for Batons is questionable.
It is very brittle and if one were to contact another I can see the thing shattering along the plies.I've had it shatter on me just drilling the darn stuff. You are the expert here and only you can tell whether this would be a problem in use.
Whoever turns it would require to use very efficient dust mask as it produces very fine particles that are evil smelling and very noxious.
I would suggest you follow Volleyheads advice and look for other dense woods that would stand up in use.
If you want beautiful, hard dense natural woods there are many choices all of which would, I'm sure, be much more serviceable.
Cocobolo,Pernambuco, Kingwood, Ebony, Zircote, Bacote, are just a few that spring to mind.
I don't know how traditional the Yawara is in terms of colour and appearance but Curly maple is very striking,
See post on "Pens.... did somebody mention pens" on this conference...It's the very light wood.
If you wanted to try making these yourself then any lathe with the ability to turn the length you need wood be OK. (Bed Length is the figure to look for).
As Sonny says it doesn't stop at the lathe you have to buy even a few basic tools and a method to keep them sharp.
Contact me through E-mail if you need more or post again.

Cheers Limey

[volleyheads]

Limey,

Have you turned any Pernambuco or Kingwood?. I haven't had a shot at those yet. Curious guy again.

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Rasputin]

The Yawara that the instructor uses are made of cocobolo, and are quite nice. However, they are very expensive, so I began to do some thinking:

I first thought about using Impact-grade Hickory from the US heartlands. You can read about why I was interested in it here:

http://www.kingfisherwoodworks.com/materials.shtml

However, after extensive discussion with the people who actually make their living manufacturing martial arts weapons, we came to the conclusion that since the strongest thing that the Yawara would come up against would possibly be someone's skull--it is not necessary that it be particularly impact resistant. Rather, the density of the material is most important, and Dymondwood (especially judging from the sample pieces that I have purchased) is as dense as you can possibly get. My samples appear to be as dense as bronze (judging by weight alone).

Interestingly, however, there is one company that actually manufactures an entire practice sword (bokken) out of Dymondwood:

http://www.bujindesign.com/weapons.html

They claim on that page that the sword can actually break other wooden swords in practice, so I can only imagine that the dymondwood can take quite a beating when needed. Luckily, the Yawara is mostly used to strike soft parts of the body or laid against a pressure point and torqued.

I do recommend that anyone who has not checked out a piece of Dymondwood do so if they get the chance--it is only $7 for a turning stick and we here were all floored by just how dense it is. It looks like it would turn out (pun intended) some mighty fine-looking small projects.


Thanks again to everyone who has made suggestions: I will be following up on many of them in the days to come.

Dave

[Limey]

Geez Rasputin I'm in the wrong business
I can give you all you need at half that price.
As for Cocobolo etc. it's about half the price of dymond wood.
The factor about the swords is that with the plies runnin along the blade it's very tough but interply strength is suspect.
These little Yawaras shouldn't cost more than about $30 with materials and labour...unless there is something special about them that you haven' told us.
Cheers Limey

[Rasputin]

If and when I decide to become the only internet distributor of Dymondwood Yawara, I will definitely get with you to talk business. It may indeed happen.

My next upcoming tribulation is a Total Knee Replacement coming up in three weeks--as you can imagine it should take up much of my time and energy for the next couple of months. After that I hope to pursue the Turning/Dymondwood thing further.

Thanks again to you all,


Dave

[volleyheads]

Good luck with the knee operation. I have been in physical therapy with many other people who have had it done. The first month SUCKS, but after that everyone of them said it was worth it. Good luck with it.

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sonny Edmonds]

Dave,
Perfect excuse to get a lathe, and a shop stool to sit on in front of it and turn wood.
They couldn't keep me out of the shop if I could stay home. The shop IS my theropy. :)
Get one small enough, and use it on a lap table. Think man, think. Git yoself set up now and slide right in when you git back home.
You could be an expert stick widdler in 2 months. :)

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Limey]

Yes Bill,

Kingwood particularly is nice...expensive but nice...

Beautiful volets,lilacs and black stripes, if you get a good piece!,
Finishes like a dream and very hard..dense...BLunts tools....
A true member of the Rosewood family with a distinctive odour...somedays it catches me right and is nice....others it's sort of sickly and cloying.
Pernambuco that I've bought can be quite variable. At it's best it is very striking other times you wonder why you paid so much !!
Definitely a wood to hand select, Finishes nicely and again has all the traits of Rosewoods.
Personally I try to find the same characteristics of Orange and black in Cocobolo as it's cheaper and more readily available. BUUUT if you find a good pice ...wow ...you understand what all the fuss is about.
Not a good picture but an example of Kingwood.!!!!

Cheers Limey