Crayolas...

[Limey]

Way to go...Sonnybunny,
Does the expression ...hooked mean anything.

Glad you're having fun,

Really really nice scribing instruements...bet your pleased.

Are you CA finishing then waxing for all of these ?

Cheers Limester

[dicklaxt]

Hey ,you are getting to be quite the expert at making pens....they really look good but I'm still not going there hahahahaha

dick

[WoodMangler]

Holey Guacamole Bro!

Those are awesome! Is that dem kits ya ordered?

Dang... you sure got good at it quick!

[robsweet]

Very nice stuff, Sonny. :)

Those fine specimens really tempt me to get a midi-lathe to play with but as I've got a 6" jointer on next month's budget, it's going to be a bit before I can justify another big expense. Keep cranking out the fine work and you'll get me hooked yet!

Rob.

PS - I've seen several posts recently about finishing so I thought I'd ask: For the record, what kind of finish did you put on those?

[Sonny Edmonds]

Yep Guys, all are CA finished, then HUT PPP wax after sanding the CA smooth with 600 grit wet or dry paper. Used dry.
It goes pretty fast, as you can tell.
These are from one of those assortments of blanks that Woodcraft sells. Except for #'s 1, 6, 14 in the picture. Those are from a piece of shop maple.
Woods I never would have ever been able to buy otherwise.
32 blanks, 16 different woods, and a whole lotta eye candy for me and Betty.

Left to right:
1. Shop Maple
2. Kingwood
3. Bolivian Rosewood
4. Birdseye Maple
5. Padauk
6. Shop Maple
7. Cocobolo
8. Bloodwood
9. Honduran Rosewood
10.Mystery wood (it wasn't marked)
11.Zebrawood
12.Granadillo
13.Purpleheart
14.Shop Maple

Not shown: Oak, Honduran Rosewood, and a shop Maple. Gave them away.
8, 12, & 13 I gave away as well. Friends and relitives.
And Betty liked the Kingwood, so that's hers.
My thoughts are thus: If I can sell 8 at $25 ea. I've recovered my costs thus far for the kit and cabooble. Sound fair? Too low?
One of my Nieces suggested $35 last night. I don't want to undercut the market, nor get stuck either.
I figure about $7-8 in materials, and an hour in time per.
I'd like your thoughts, you are my highly respected friends and several of you are Professional Woodworkers eeking out a living at it.
I'm looking to retire into woodworking in a few years ahead. Mostly because I love wood, and because I like the satisfaction I get from seeing the delight in the recipiant's face. And I might as well do something with my hobby equipment. :)
Maybe pens could offset some costs? And as a matter of fact, I don't mind repetitive work. Especially when each piece is so individually unique as wood is.

Limey,
On using and doing CA finishes. I think I have a good method now. Always using the thin CA for penatration, so far.
First coat is done with the lathe off and wiped on by hand with a piece of waxed paper and the lathe turned by hand as needed.
That way it fills the pores. Maybe twice if warrented. Let the CA set up without accellerant on each coat. The accellerant causes the CA to get weird sometimes.
Then a coat or two at low speed. My 500 RPM minimum works OK (but wish I could go slower :( )
I let the lathe spin while it cures.
Then I crank it up fast and sand it smooth with 400 and 600 to get an even surface. (If I can't I take a step backwards and apply another coat of CA at 500 RPM.)
Once satisfied, then the HUT PPP for 2-3 coats. But use any finish wax you like and find works well for you. I only have HUT so far, and that is the only reason I reference to it.
The CA has a tendency to stick the bushings to the work, but it will break free with a tad of finess.
I bag them with the assemblies and press several at the next assembly stage. Wipe and bag and Finee~.
And I'm really getting the hang of "Let your bevel rub, Sonny." Good advice indeed my friend. :)

I might get the hang of it yet. :)

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[SteveF]

Pretty nice, Sonny! Looks like you've perfected your CA finish. I'm curious, how do you prevent the CA from gluing your finished blanks to the bushings?

Steve

[Sonny Edmonds]

Actually, I don't.
When I glue in the inserts (or brass barrels), I coat both ends to "fill" them with CA.
I will usually shoot these with the accelerator as well.
When whatever number of blanks are readied, I go touch up the ends on a 1 x 30" belt sander just to flush the ends.
Then the tube ends get a lick with a deburring/champhering countersink by hand.
When these are set onto the bushings on the mandrel things snug up pretty well.
What little sticking that does occure with the blank and the bushing can be dealt with when removing the finished blank from the mandrel.

I found it easiest for me to slide it almost entirely off, work the blank sideways to break loose the stuck part and slide the headstock bushing back. Slip the blank up and repeat and the mid bushing. And remove the fore blank from the mandrel.
Slide the mid bushing onto the mandrel and snap loose the upper pen blank.
Then end for end the upper blank and put the tailstock bushing onto the mandrel and snap loose that blank.
With both finished blanks in one hand I replace the mandrel knurled nut and turn and put the blanks in a bag with the hardware for assembly later.

When I prep another set of barrels, I put them on the mandrel to rough them up for the glueing into the next blanks. At the same time I sand off the CA on the bushings a touch. Fresh and clean, zing, zing, zing.
Sanding in the next blank further reduces build up in the bushings of CA.

But I will as well, do one step at a time. It's even more efficent.
A number of blanks are cut. All the shorts. Then all the longs. I mark the blanks with a pencil to keep the grain orientated.
Then drill them all. (I drill mine on the lathe.)
Then mount the insert barrels and rough them on the lathe.
Then glue in the barrels.
Then sand the ends as needed.
Then turn and finish each one. The finished blanks get put in a bag of parts for assembly.
Then go to my assembly press. Assemble, wipe clean, and final polish, and bag them in the bag the kit was in.
I save the cut offs of the blanks with the number indexing them to a list of the wood's name.

It's a kadence. And it works out better than it reads. :)
I don't worry much about the CA getting on the bushings because it gets sanded off sooner or later. :) Make sense?

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[robsweet]

Ok, I've had pens on the brain all day thanks to you, Sonny, and I'm actually thinking of putting off my jointer purchase in favor of a Jet Mini-lathe.

I've got a Woodcraft store locally that's selling it for their usual price of $325. So the question is: What else would I need to get started that isn't included w/ the lathe and roughly how much cost am I looking at for those items?

Also, I noticed at the store that there's a bed extension available for the Jet. I'd thought that Delta was the only company who'd made a bed extension and after a little checking around, I *did* find the Jet extension but it seems that there aren't too many mentions of it. Is the Jet extension a fairly new product or already out of production or something?

This is really all your fault Sonny, for posting those pics and if I start turning out nice pens, I'm going to blame it all on you. :)

Thanks guys.
Rob.

[Sonny Edmonds]

It depends. (Brilliant Huh?)

Rob,
I can take it, I've got broad shoulders. If the wife gets pieved at you, tell her I said to come straddle them. :o
No, better not tell her that on second thought. Betty's small, but she packs a wallop. LOL! :7
Well, lessee. Just pens? You could get into that for 100 dollars. Of course that leads to a second 100 dollars because 10 pens just isn't enough.
And unless your happy drilling blanks on your drill press, you'll want a scroll chuck. That will cost about as much as the lathe.
Then you'll get frustrated with trying to sharpen your tools and get a Tormak. There goes as much as the lathe AND the chuck together.
Of course you'll need to drop around 200 into chisels for the lathe.

So you'll start off with a 325 dollar lathe.
And when you finally get comfortable you'll be at around 1500 or so.

Then you'll be so soft hearted you'll give away half the pens you made.
But you'll be happy. Poor, but Happy.
And your Family and friends will be sportin some cool lookin pens. And they'll Ooooo and Ahhhhh over the pens you made.

And you'll realize trees are round, not box shaped. And the things coming off the lathe are round.
And there will be harmony. Poor harmony.... but harmony none the less.

You'll realize you can make stuff out of scraps around the shop. And you'll have super glue as a perminent coating where your fingerprints used to be.
And you'll realize it is really your own damn fault. Not mine, not Limey's, not Dicks, but your own damn fault because now you'll still need a jointer anyway.
It ain't easy bein easy Ya know. :)

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[robsweet]

Fortunately, I'm not married so I can spend my money with impunity. :)

In all likelyhood, I'll get the lathe and pen stuff in July and get the jointer in Aug. I'm supposed to be building my sister a bed frame which is what the jointer is for but the pens sound like more fun right now. I'll tell her the jointer is back-ordered. ;)

As far as pen equipment is concerned, would you mind giving me some more details? I'm just trying to figure out what I need to buy to start with. I figure that I'm better off asking here than walking into the Woodcraft store and saying, "Hi, I want to start making pens. Sell me everything I'll need." Kind of an open invitation to run up a big bill.

I know that I'll need blanks and pen kits for each pen. I'll probably do without the scroll chuck for now although I can easily see why it speeds up the process.

Other things I know (or think) I'll need to buy:
- Mandrel (#1, #2...?)
- Bushings (there are *lots* of different bushings, apparently)
- Brad point or "pen maker's" bit to bore the blanks
- CA glue for the shafts
- Hut PPP
- Turning tools - what should I be looking at just to learn with?

Anyway, that's my laundry list for now. Anything else I should be thinking about to start off with?

BTW, I intend to take a class at the local Woodcraft store in about two weeks before I buy any of this but I know myself and if I have fun in the class I'm likely to leave the store with all kinds of goodies. That in mind, I want a decent idea of what I should consider buying.

Thanks for the input and yes, I realize that it's really all *my* fault. :)

Rob.

[volleyheads]

Sonny,

50 pens or so at $30 each and you are covering almost all of your $1500 outlay, although we both know the big T wasn't only for your turning tools. ;)

Nice pens too, but I thought I detected a little pinkish tone in two of them. :)

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sawduster]

Sonny,
Seems you are a natch with those pens. They do look great. I tried out the CA glue finish and it does come out nice. As much as I like BLO, I even used some to lube the sandpaper for the final sanding. Maybe it was just the wonderful aroma of the BLO, but it seemed that it did make some difference in the finish. My second coat "whited" up as I was putting it on. Don't know if that was because the first coat hadn't set long enough, or if it was the heat drying it quicker whilst spinning it at slow speed (whatever that is on my lathe). It did sand up pretty good. How much time are you giving it between coats?

[Sonny Edmonds]

1. 126705 Professional pen mandrel. (I got it for the versitillity of it.)
2. A bushing set for the type and style pens you choose to make.
3. X # of kits for that style of pen.
4. Blanks, grow your own or buy a bag of assorted blanks. (Most fun)
5. CA glue. I use USA Gold thin for the finishing, and medium for glueing in the barrels to the blanks.
6. A drill for the type of kit you choose to make, to drill the blanks. (Different kits want different drill sizes)
7. Waxed paper, sand paper (strips or sheets, if you don't already have plenty)
8. Of course a lathe and turning chisels.

Now the Midi & the Jet Mini lathes are very much alike with subtle differences. Both have 1" x 8 TPI spindals.
Both have # 2 Morse Taper (MT) in the spindal and tailstock. (#2 MT is VERY common).
Either would make a great small parts lathe up to about a 8-9" diameter bowl.
Had I known, I would have just gotten a nice honkin lathe right off. Variable speed is highly desireable.
But changing the belt for speed changes isn't so hard neither.
My midi is still just clamped to the table, as I haven't decided on a perminent spot. These size lathes have many nice features,
such as the portability of them. You can set them up on a bench and put them down out of the way if desired.
They'll do a lot, but have their limitations as well. Either is a great starter lathe. Great pen lathes.

But maybe next fall, if I can muster it, I'm going to get nutz and buy a big lathe. The new DVR 3000 Nova is in the front with me right now.
That is what I call a Honker. In hindsight, I could have brought one of those home and been set for life.
Rather than go extending a Mini or Midi, I strongly suggest you look at a longer, larger lathe right out of the gate.
For a few hundred more you could have a great lathe with variable speed that would be a step up from the get go.
That's how sure I am you will like turning.

On chisels, you will need some decient chisels. I have one high end Ellsworth signiture series. It's a beaut! I use it a lot.
And the second most used is a scraper type chisel. I bought a Midi chisel set with the lathe. It doesn't get used all that much anymore. But is handy when smaller chisels are nice to have.
But you could start off with an Ellsworth and a good 1/2" scraper and do just fine. I have a handfull of others,
cheap chisels that work good. But I'm settleing in with the two as my mainstays.
Don't be intimadated by a chisel 2' long on a small lathe, it gives you great control for learning.

Woodcraft will have everything you'll need. And the folks are nice! Talk to them. Tell them right up front you are starting out.
Put any fear or ego problems in your hip pocket and sit on them. Use your own judgement as to if you want something
extra they may suggest. 50 bucks worth of books can go a long way towards seeing how the tools come into play.
As well as helping you to get the hang of it. I have two on the back of the toilet for browsing.
I strongly recommend a chuck. It makes drilling the blanks a breeze, and a drill chuck for the tailstock to hold the drill.
Turning is greatly different in that the tools and edges are stationary and the wood is the moving element.
Whereas, on a saw, jointer, planer, router, etc. the wood is being moved into the spinning edges.
Totally different forces are in play.
If you think you'll like turning wood, your already there. You'll find a whole new world of fun.


:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Sonny Edmonds]

Hi Ya Jerry,
How much time? Hummm, not a long time really. Maybe a minute or two.
I haven't had mine "white up" on me, unless of course when sanding it smooth.
If it is clouding up just from putting more on, maybe it is some sort of reaction from the coats?
Maybe if you sand with 600 between coats, to be sure there isn't any skin oils or such on the surface. Scotch bright should work as well.
I have read where alkaline will cause CA to flash dry, and acidic will slow it down.
The stuff I'm using is USA Gold from Woodcrafters, the thin stuff.
That's about all I can think of to suggest. Maybe humidity is in play?

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Sonny Edmonds]

NO way Bill, LOL!
I do see what you mean though, here from work as well. But not from home, nor in the camera.
So it must be monitor differences, because they are natural Maple.
Actually I expected some flack from Limey about the purpleheart. LOL!
And my Baby Sister took that one.
My elder Sister liked the Granadillo, and My Brother-In-Law (the lawyer) liked the bloodwood. Go figure. :7
30 sounds fair enough to me. 130 sounds better, but 30 is doable. :)
Once I've made them, I detach from them. I want to see what's in the next blank and how it will work. No strings attached.
Anyhow, the feelers are out with the richer folks in the Family. Maybe they will generate some orders.
I've got 11 kits left, more than that in blanks. Still more maple I could make blanks from.
But this is a feeler for making pens. My trouble is I'm NOT a salesman. I'm just a dufus that likes to make stuff. Shrug :)


:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[volleyheads]

You aren't just a dufus!

:):):):)

ROTFLMAO

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sonny Edmonds]

Bill,
OK, OK.

A DUFUS and the forum A$$HOLE.

How's that for honesty?
ROTFLMAO now! :7

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[volleyheads]

Getting much closer, but I guess we had better stop now for the sake of the forum.

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sawduster]

Sonny,
I don't know, man, this pen stuff has seemed to change you. You've gotten kinda mellowed or something. Not the A$$ you used to be.

If you know a flooring guy or a deck builder that does Ipe, you ought give some of that a try. It is real hard, but turns very nice, and sands almost to a gloss that needs no finish. Beside, it don't work in the smoker.

[robsweet]

Sonny,

Thanks so much for the input. I think I'll probably stick with the midi for now (you know, until I'm *really* hooked :) ) and think about a full-size lathe later. I'm also considering pool cues as I like to go out once or twice a week to shoot a few racks and I think the extension would be perfect for that sort of thing. Cues are skinny so I don't imagine that hp will be a problem.

Anyway, I'll let you all know how things work out. With any luck I'll be able to post some pics of my initial successes and the unavoidable failures too. :)

Thanks again.
Rob.

[volleyheads]

It souds to me like Sonny may know where a Delta Midi may be coming up on being available, slightly used..... ;)

Sonny,

I like your choice of the DVR, it depends on my patience if I can wait for the Big Blue or break down and go for the DVR myself.

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, I'll tell Ya Jerry,
I've lowered the RPM's a lot, I can tell ya that. Nobody told me to pull in my oar; I just did it of my own accord. ;)
I found it entertaining the way some threads would fire up. And in the end folks would walk away from them with a better understanding of each other and actually, in most cases, even better friends.
But there is a small faction of tea toadelers who whine and ##### just too F'ing much.
Rather than point out to these worms just what and who they are, I focus on the large majority who are here for woodworking and the fun of the camaraderie of the forum.
I like how a thread might curve off into other discussions.
Whereas these bass turds pitch a hissy fit because someone strayed off topic.
If they need that kind of sterility, get the F out and go where you get your writing deleted for a lowercase i where an "I" belongs. Where things are so sterile humans cannot be allowed to interact as woodworkers.

I haven't been around this forum as long as some, but longer than a hell of a lot of others. Never has Lee said anything to me about some of the wars I have been involved in. Nor what's in my profile either.
I have a lot of respect for how he runs this forum. He allows free speech. He allows us to flow and calm and work it all out.
Just like a big Family. That's why I like it here so very much. :)
And in turn I have made many fast friends via this forum. Friends I hold dear and carry a great deal of concern for.
I often read the lines and what's between them. I sense when one is off the norm and often check in with a personal email with them.

But just because the waters are calm, make no mistake that dangers don't lurk in the deep. I see posts where I could rip and tear, but watch others I know and trust, feed on some twit without tearing a huge chunk of a$$ out of someone myself. It's more tactful.
But I'm still the same 'Ol a$$hole I can be if I come of a mind to be.
I rib and don't mind at all being ribbed back.
That's what friendships are all about. Most other forums wouldn't allow for the deeper friendships that flourish here. It's their loss as well.
Because sidetracks are where one can find the soul of the woodworker seeking the soul of the wood. That becomes very distant in sterile forums.

This isn't an encyclopedia or dictionary. This is a universal mind of woodworking individuals from many walks of life.
Young, old, new and experienced. Known only through what they write, the tracks left along the way. The senses of humor that make learning fun.

And at least one A$$hole. Uh.... that'd be me. :7
LOL!
ROTFLOL! :7

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Sawduster]

Amen, Brother. The only problem with the side tracks is that sometimes I can't remember where something was said. Memory, they say, is the second thing to go. I don't remember the first.

BTW: The second time around with the CA worked a lot better. Got about five coats on, sanded it down starting with 320, to 600. Gooped two more coats on and took it down to 1500 with some BLO for lube. Then some HUT pen wax stuff.

I've liked the way the Ambrosia Maple and Ipe looked together so I've gotten into a rut with those. Got some Purple Heart I need to try out, and a bunch of other stuff. Need to order some more pen kits, or I'll have to resort to pencils.

[volleyheads]

If you run out of pen kits and need a quick fix, maybe some light pulls or Wine stoppers would give you that quick fix you need. ;)

Best Regards,

Bill

"If it is worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, shucks Jerry, as long as the essence of what is said helps
or even if it just sparks some thought, then communication has come acrossed.
I can't remember what the first was neither. LOL :)

Wow! 5 coats is a lottsa stuff! But it all depends on how it goes for you.
Whatever it takes to be satisfied. Ground zero I call it. Each of us is right there working our project, we can't stop and ask while the CA is setting up.
Sounds like you've got it down and are doing just fine with it to me. I like the HUT wax fine myself.
But like I said, it's the only thing I have tried so far.

How is it you are working the Ambrosia Maple and Ipe together? Laminating quarters, or one for one section and the other for the other section, or? However you do it it sounds good.
Ruts aren't a bad thing, I'm in one with cigar pens myself, LOL. I like them, what can I say? :)
So much so, I prepped ALL the blanks I have for that style pen last night. Drilled them, and glued in barrels to five of them. I only have 11 kits left total, but have quite a few blanks prepped.

I cut the short section (top) first on a bunch with my SCMS. (Very carefully) Then the longs.
Steps, I break it down to production steps. I make a pencil mark acrossed where the cut will be.
That way I can keep from end for end screw ups where the grains come out in an "AW Chit!".
When I'm done with the turning, the marks gone of course, but I align the grains much like matching two fired bullets and push the pen together. WA-LA!

I know this pen stuff sounds boring to many, but I like doing it myself. I like seeing the finished pen, but I especially like seeing other folks' faces when I lay out an array in front of them to choose from. :)

So far the purpleheart is a favorite of the ladies. Very unusual wood.
Looks like it was dyed almost. Finishes very well though. I'd bet you like it when you do turn some. :)

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Sawduster]

I really got to get away from the lathe. I knew this would happen. If it ain't pens it'll be somethin else, and my others tools are beginning to grumble about playing second fiddle to that silly spinnin thing over there. The TS is screamin about how its blade needs to be cleaned, and bitchin bout that bandsaw box in the glue-up and clamped stage sittin on the end of the table that isn't needed for cuttin pen blanks. Oh well, maybe those old bearings will give out before the ones I ordered get here from the factory. But, till then . . .

The ambrosia maple is a bit softer than the Ipe and somewhat more absorbent so sanding a finishing are a chore. I glue pieces of the two woods together to make the blanks. Sometimes straight across and sometimes at 45 degrees. Dad gum MSN assigns strange characters to file names so regular HTML can't figure it out so I have to link rather than put the pic right here. Anyway here's a pic of the one I did last night.

http://groups.msn.com/JerrysWoodworkingExtraordinaire/woodworkingstuff.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=55

The center ring is out beyond the end of the tube but was glued to the top part and drilled out with it. I used one of the short bushings that came with the mandrel in order to get the whole thing onto the mandrel along with the washer and nut. The Ipe is h#!! on the pen mill, but turns real sweet.

[dicklaxt]

I'm glad I don't have those troubles lol

[Sonny Edmonds]

... that Ipe is either really dark, or I'm seeing it wrong here.
But I like that 45'd top end.
Gives me more ideas on my cut-offs from the normal pen blanks.
Say a capper of kingwood on birdseye Maple. Or bloodwood on something.
I was thinking (danger!) of some slices glued up and a rainbow pen of sorts.
You have a distinct style to your pens. They have a waist to them. Interesting. And a flare to the point.
Looks good! :)

Oh, and my other tools don't grumble. They are just giving me the silent treatment. :o
But the TS and Jointer got some exercise this past weekend and yesterday. All is well.
Nobody froze up yet. ;)

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !

[Sawduster]

That Ipe I got is a bit on the dark side. Did some others that were mostly Ipe and they almost look black. Of course the picture is not real great, but it looked lighter on the PC at home. As far as the shape, I kinda like that female hour glass sort of line on the pens, of course I REALLY like the female hour glass line on . . .

[Sonny Edmonds]

Before they go out, I wanted to post these pens I cranked out.

:D

Sonny Edmonds
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/
God Bless America !