Norm is the man [Archive] - Woodworking.com Forum

rjbig

11-06-2000, 06:25 PM

Great Topic, and you guys have some great responses. The DEATHMATCH idea is beautiful. I seriously doubt that things are exactly as they appear on the show/s. I feel pretty confident that Norm has several helpers that do a lot of the actual work on these projects. Part of the fun of being GOOD is teaching it to others. Norm does seem to have a very broad knowledge base which you can only achieve by experience. This shows quited evidently when compared to Bob. I have to agree with whoever made the comment about all the fancy tools. It's nice if you got them but he could go more in to detail on how to do it without them.
Keep in mind that you can always substitute dowels for Bisquits. A simple doweling jig can be purchased for 10.00 or you can make one out of scape wood(it will wear fast though).

As for the nail holes. It best method is to stain the piece, seal the piece, fill nail holes and cracks in wood or joints with a putty matched to your stain. This way it will match. If you fill your holes with wood filler prior to staining it is very difficult to get a match. The filler stains differently, usually much lighter. If you use colored filler, minwax sells it in little jars by stain displays as do others, prior to sealing (with sanding sealer) the putty will tend to smear around the hole into the wood grain and shows up later. By installing the putty after you seal the piece the filler can be wiped cleanly and the finish coat seals it in place.

Good luck and Happy Craving!
I've Got a 10spot on Norm in the Fifth Round with the Cordless Framing Nailer!

rjbig

Daniel Hunter

11-06-2000, 10:53 PM

Dudes,

Check out how many "views" this forum has over others in the list. Hands down, Norm is the man.

AM I RIGHT!!!

karl in pa

11-07-2000, 12:22 PM

I too enjoy watching Norm but i would love to see the out-takes of the shows. I've often wondered if he throws a miss cut piece of walnut at the goof that set-up the table saw just a smidgen to loose. Does he get his fingers too close to the sanding drum in his drill press and sand his fingernails? I think these out-takes would be better than that bloopers and practical jokes show.

Fred C

11-15-2000, 12:27 PM

OK, I'll admit it: I like Norm. I've seen most of his shows at least twice. However, he doesn't "teach" woodworking. You can learn alot from watching, and he provides some pretty good tips, but if you're looking for a teacher, someone who brings in guest experts, and uses real tools just like the rest of us, try Scott Phillips - American Woodshop on PBS.

George

11-15-2000, 08:32 PM

I agree Scott is in more of a teaching mode on his show, but Norm will always be the tops. I had the pleasure of meeting Norm at a show here in the Detroit area. And what a pleasure it was. The man spent an unusual amount of time just talking to me and a couple of friends. One of the most suprising things he told us is that his eyesight is pretty bad and has been getting worse. I really felt bad for him as he told us about it. Two most memorable moments, meeting Norm and walking with Arnie from the 9th to the 10th, certainly two of the best. Best wishes.

Larry

11-16-2000, 02:45 PM

Norm does have a rather impressive belly, speaks Bostonese quite well, and is certainly a fine craftsman, but his show doesn't quite deal with reality now does it. He has a specific discrete tool for every thing he does. Is this the way WE do things? He really should be showing how to built things with the common tools Joe Average woodworker is apt to own. Oh, one other thing, the guy has a fetish for nailguns. He uses them in visible areas and then must fill in the holes. I realize this is quicker than gluing and clamping, but quick isn't always best.

Lou

11-16-2000, 07:36 PM

I agree that Norm has all the tools and has a new one for each show. But, over the years I have learned a lot more from him than from any other source. If you watch a lot of shows, he usualy shows a number of ways to make the same kind of joints. I know that he designs, builds and demonstrates all of the work on his show. He has the skill to use the tools he has, without the skill all of the best tools in the world still give you junk as a result.

For me he is the Man. and I hope one day to be able to do half of what he does.

But, for you purest James Krenov is the best ever. He uses a bandsaw and planes to turn large planks of raw wood to very fine furnature. Check out his work and books.

Ron

11-18-2000, 01:45 PM

Well, I'd have to agree, Norm is THE MAN! I know it was he who actually effected my final descision to set up shop. I always thought about it, but I stumbled over The New Yankee one day by accident and haven't missed one scince.
I too have often wondered about how many people are actually involved, and yes...the naigun thing too:)

I'd also like to know when Scott Philips is on PBS? I've heard of him and seen him in delta ads, but have never seen the show. I live in central PA, anyone know if this show can be seen on comcast of harrisburg?

Thanx, Ron

George

11-19-2000, 01:29 PM

Call your local PBS station. They should be able to tell you. He's not on as much in my area anymore.

JohnC

11-21-2000, 02:35 PM

I normally just sit back and read this forum, but now you've got me going. :-) Comparing Scott Phillips to Norm??? Please, Scott Phillips absolutely pales in comparison! Come on guys... remote control dust collection... more safety devices on his tablesaw than a brand new BMW... trotting out his wife on nearly each program. I'm sorry, I don't mean to step on anyone's fingers here, but that boy is anal retentive beyond belief. He's even been lampooned by SNL. I truly believe that Norm is the real deal. I've read a lot about him and I don't think there's any fast camera action to make him look better or other people building the projects. He knows what he's doing and is quite able of teaching, if you take time to listen. I realize that we all have our favorites and Norm is certainly mine.

Oakmiser

11-22-2000, 07:01 AM

What man? Who is Norm???

MadMark

11-25-2000, 02:15 PM

At the risk of being crucified by all of the Norm lovers here I do want to put out a couple of items for your consideration.

First, Norm has done a great deal to popularize woodworking, for this I (we) all owe him a collective debt of gratitude.

HOWEVER! Norm is a master *carpenter* and not a master *cabinetmaker*. He's a good cabinetmaker, but his carpentry roots show clearly every time he uses nails/screws on a piece of furniture.

Additionally his "power tool for every occassion" approach does a disservice to the trade as a whole. Woodworking is about the skills in the *HANDS*, NOT about tools!

The best quality work is done completely without metal. Additionally you do NOT need a laser sighted CMS to cut accurately (actually from what I've heard that particular tool is LESS accurate than measuring directly!)

Metal in wood will eventually fail. To use metal to hold the structure of wood together is to invite failure and to intentionally design a piece that will NOT last. To see Norm use a air nailer to tack on a piece of trim "Just until the glue dries" is a SIN. Especially when there are about 1000 clamps visible in the background!

Having the giant variety of tools available makes many of his projects impossible for the "average" garage woodworker to duplicate! Seeing fancy tools do a task is great, but wouldn't it be better if you saw projects built with what most of us can realistically afford? TS, drill, router, sander, biscuiter. Not a $20,000 36" power sanding station?

Anyway I *LIKE* Norm, but I've caught him out a couple of times and his reliance on technology instead of skills does a disservice. Too many folx see his show and run out an spend a ton of $$$ on gadgets expecting the toys to allow them to make quality furniture. In reality you have to teach your *HANDS* how to work!

M

Rod

11-25-2000, 05:07 PM

MadMark, in some ways I agree with you. Most projects I build with the intent of being displayed indoors and hopefully kept as heirlooms are built completely without metal fasteners. Other items that I know will be used but not necessarily expected to last forever, but as long as possible, such as jigs, garden tools, etc., are built with function in mind, ergo nuts, bolts, whatever. It would be nice to see Norm build projects with the same tools I have, but most of mine are getting a little age on them, and his sponsors don't make any money off 15 year old tools. I've been working wood as a hobby for over 20 years, and I believe I could build anything he has built with the tools I have, I just have to figure out a different method or technique. But to me that is a big part of the enjoyment of this hobby. I also agree with you about that laser guided mitersaw, but I don't believe he uses it on the newer shows. To wrap it up, no, Norm is not the best cabinetmaker, but time has proven that he is good at what he does, and is the best personality for the type program that The New Yankee Workshop is. We just have to realise that with the budgets of PBS's programming having been cut as they have been in recent years we are going to have to endure corporate sponsorship of programs like this, and if they tell Norm to use a computerized whatzit jig that none of us could ever own, in order for us to keep enjoying the show, he has to use it. Sorry for the length of this, I hope I don't come accross as flammatory, but just dropping in my humble tho long opinion.

Keith

11-25-2000, 06:04 PM

I had the oportunity of meeting him at a mutual friends wedding adout 10 or so yrs ago. He was very personable but a little mift that only alchahol free beverages were serverd. I did not want to talk shop with him because I thought it would be a good thing for him just to have fun with his now X wife and the rest of us. I also met a man about 2 yrs ago who bought a house a few miles away from me that I did some work on and he used to work for the carpenters on This Old House. I can't remember their names, somthing Brothers. Any way, this other guy who used to work for them got to talking about Norm, he said that Norm wips out these projects at unbelievable speed and he does them by himself. He can think 10 steps ahead but, he does work from plans or visuals. Also his shop is not that big. Of corse the show is edited as we all should realise but it sure would be better if it was 1 hour long, a lot more detail could be givin. Perhaps we should all patition the Boston network that produces it, and perhaps we should wright to Norm and ask him to do more conventinal or authentic cabinet and furniture construction. Perhaps the producers don't realise how much better it would all be.

Lou

11-25-2000, 06:07 PM

I agree with your rebuttal. and over the years I have seen him do lots of joints in more than one method. Even in some shows with hand tools. He knows how to use a nice sharp chisel. A single mortise is easier made with a drill and chisel and that is what he has done in the past. If you ever notice when he pulls out a plane is it very sharp. And some times it is nice to see what those expensive tools can do. My biggest hero is James Krenov and the only power tool he uses is a bandsaw to take planks to boards.

Norm is also loyal to tools that he prefers. He still is seen every once in a while useing the Liegh dovetail jig even though two of his sponsers make competiting equipment. not as good by the way.

But, for the vast majority of wood hobbist Norm gives them the courage to start in the most enjoyable hobby they will every find.

I love what he does, and I own a few nailers, I don't use them on the fine furnature I make, but they work great for some of the stuff I make that is not intended to last a lifetime.

Greg

11-25-2000, 07:49 PM

I hate to break it to you guys, but "Norm" doesn't really exist. It's all generated by computers. I bet you all thought "Betty Crocker" and "Dear Abby" were real too, huh?!

Greg

11-25-2000, 08:21 PM

OK! Relax! I was only kidding......Norm does exist! But seriously, I just read the comments posted by Rod and Mad Mark. I make my living building "high end" furniture (I always hated that term--sounds so snobby!) I agree that really fine quality furniture should not have any nail holes, filled or not, anyplace that can be seen. But I have no problem using them to hold pieces together until the glue sets if they are not going to show. And as far as using "modern" power tools.....Why not? What counts is what you do with the tools. Every tool at one time was a "modern" tool. My shop is equipped with tools ranging from draw knives, hand planes, and scapers, to wide drum sanders, spraying equipment, and yes, even nail guns! You wouldn't want a surgeon operating on you that was only going to use technology from the past, would you! If woodworking is a hobby to you and using old tools and techniques is you thing, great!!! But in order to make a living at this, I can see no reason not to embrace new technology, as long as quality is maintained or better yet, improved. Well, thanks for letting me talk about Norm??!!

wrought'n harv

12-01-2000, 06:54 AM

I think some of you missed some points about Norm that are really important.

One, reality check. According to the original New Yankee Workshop Book (87-88?) the television producer for the show happened to have a friend that was having this house built by this amazing carpenter.........

The friend and the producer were both impressed to bejeezus by the fact that this guy worked by hisself and his scrap pile was almost nonexistant. They were also blown away by his work ethic.

The producer had the carpenter build an apartment over his garage in the winter time and was stunned to see the carpenter working rain, snow, whatever they have to contend with there in yankee land and all by himself, close to be almost like all by hisself.

The other thing ya'll got your skirts all in a knot about, tools.

Tools make the project and not the artisan. Just imagine what the greats could have done with the likes of the technology of today.

I've got a blacksmith powerhammer from an artisan that made swords the old Japanese way. He was getting away from the powerhammer because he was getting more and more into the process and less involved with the product. That's his words and a great definition for what motivates us. I say us because we're all motivated by making things or wanting to or we wouldn't be here on this forum.

Some of us get past the product and get all involved with the process. That's kewl. But some of us are just tickled pink to be able to make something. I personally believe the purists who rave about process are just escaping the tension of producing.

They're like a friend of mine who is such a perfectionist that he never does anything because he's so involved in not doing it wrong. Sorta like the deer frozen in the headlights not wanting to jump the wrong direction.

What I like about Norm is he makes things the way they should be made. Those wanting to make the things can get around not having all the trick tools with logic and a little southern engineering--yankee ingenuity. It's understanding why you glue this and not that this important etc. He does that better'n about anyone else.

http://photos.yahoo.com/wroughtnharv

ROBERT

12-02-2000, 11:05 AM

Corporate Sponsorship makes The Man.

>sigh<

Jerry

01-20-2001, 04:14 PM

WHEW!

Glen

01-20-2001, 06:20 PM

MadMark I'd like to thank you for putting a reality check on this discussion. We don't witness things like setup time or the crew running cleanup out of camera view. His projects are typically basic. The Yankee shop is actualy located on the producers property.
Norm is an inspiration to many, Scott does some okay stuff. But I gotta tell ya's the real master can be seen on the woodright show.
Don't knock the remote control for the dust collector till you've tried one. One of the best $80 I've spent.

Keep it in perspective is all.

Glen

Glen

01-20-2001, 06:21 PM

Lou_williams

01-21-2001, 02:22 AM

I have talked to people that are part of the show. Norm does all the setup and design for the projects. It takes him two days to build most projects. True it is a TV show and we don't see all the stuff that goes on, but from what I know there is not a big group behind the camera doing woodworking task. They have a crew that is doing camera and TV work.

But, I do agree with the Remote for the dust system. Great investment. Now I just have to redo the rest of the system to make it worth it.

Glen

01-21-2001, 10:02 AM

I wonder how much film they shoot for a segment/show. I know those fishing/hunting shows go through miles of film. I'm sure their digital now and Yankee probably doesn't required miles of film. Just curious, also about retakes, cuz we know everything doesn't go perfect everytime. It owuld warm my soul to see him do a blooper & blunder show.

Glen

Lou_williams

01-21-2001, 03:09 PM

I would also Love to see the Bloopers from the Show. The shooting schedule is two days per episode that you can check on their web page somewhere.

I have done some Video production work over the years and I know that if you shoot for two days you have at least a weeks worth of editing.

todd

01-21-2001, 08:51 PM

I have never seen the show with scott philips in minnesota on pbs. I have learned alot from norm but it would be nice to see how other woodworkers do there stuff

rrich

01-21-2001, 10:49 PM

Lou,
Can you imagine the nightmare of keeping the lenses free of dust?
Rich

Lou_williams

01-22-2001, 12:33 AM

Have you seen the sawdust system they have in that shop. If we had that system we wouldn't have to worry about cleaning lenses.

But in my shop you could see the start of the tool and the next thing you saw would be the back of the dust.

Glen

01-22-2001, 06:46 AM

All,

I REALY would like to see the Bloopers and especialy how he recovered when he could. Wonder if we, this forum, could collectively request this.
Something else I wish someone would do is a series striclty on
jointery. Perhaps a more classroom type environment.

Glen

Wayne

01-23-2001, 01:01 PM

Ron,
I have a similar opinion re: Norm. I have not watched a single show of his that I didn't learn at least one valuable usable item. I have the same prblem re: Scott Phillips--it's not available here in Minnesota.

Wayne

01-23-2001, 01:10 PM

I suppose the next thing you'll say is that there is no Easter Bunny of Santa Claus either. I have seen both and know they are real!

John

01-23-2001, 04:40 PM

I've heard this comment over and over again about "why does Norm use tools that no one can afford?". I honestly don't think that he has ever used an unusual tool where it wasn't blatently obvious what to do if you don't have that tool.

I've been learning from Norm and building things since I was fairly young (and fairly broke!). For my first 20 or so pieces, I had a corded drill from the 60's, a $29 Skil saw, and 2 clamps.
Now I have good tools, but I'll never have all that Norm does, cause it's a hobby, not my life.

Example: Door hinge routing jig - if you don't have one (I never would) put the hinge on the door, trace a pencil line, and chisel it out! Duh!

I heard reference from someone to a $20k 36" drum sander. What does that make him able to do that you can't? Zero.

I challenge anybody to tell me something that Norm has done with a proprietary or commercial-grade tool that cannot be done with normal hobbyist tools.

I read somewhere that someone asked him "why don't you show how to make things entirely with hand tools?". His response; "cause it's the NEW Yankee Workshop, not the OLD Yankee Workshop"

Geez, give the guy a break. After all....he's the MAN

Glen

01-23-2001, 08:18 PM

Reality and perspective gets distorted John. At least at the hobbyist's level. You make a good case but I wonder how many hobbyists step over to their bohemoth resaw station. I also believe his tools are a showcase for the mfg. therefore donated. Wish I was sponsered, that was a jealous twinge.

Glen

John

01-24-2001, 10:30 AM

Glen,

I agree with you. I would love to be able to cut down a tree, bring it home as 12/4 stock and resaw it as needed. The only thing I was trying to say is that for everything Norm has there is a workaround for the average joe.

Norm strikes me as a hard working regular guy, and in my book people who work hard every day and treat other people right deserve all good things that come to them (including TV shows and free tools).

J

MadMark

01-24-2001, 11:07 AM

Not all of Norms stuff can be duplicated by the home hobbiest.

Saw a variant on the pocket screw cutter with a 12" drill and a swinging router. Ain't no way you're going to duplicate that with any hand tools.

Some of his tools are just overkill. The laser guided miterbox comes to mind.

Seeing all of the various tools used without alternatives being presented is tough. He has an unlimited supply of clamps, cutters, etc. He's also burned huge amounts of time on projects that you could only do for yourself as no-one would pay you minimum wage for the hours it took.

I like Norm. I think he'd be a fine guest at dinner. But I think he'd do more for woodworking if he showed how to get results using the tools that the average "garage" woodworker can reasonably afford.

M

Glen

01-24-2001, 11:46 AM

MadMark,

Simply put; well said.
Norm is fun to watch, but could be more educational or bennificial as I've read into your reply.
Alot is lost in not presenting those "work arounds".

Glen

captquin

01-24-2001, 06:41 PM

Anybody can do good woodworking with a million dollar shop.

Rod

01-25-2001, 09:16 PM

I can't remember which magazine it was in, but I saw a jig for a router that made perfect pocket holes. You can also make a jig with hardwood to use a drill to do the same. Point is, John is right. I've never seen Norm do anything that I couldn't replicate in my own shop with the hobbiest tools I own. My skill level is all that holds me back, and I work on that every chance I get.

Rod

01-25-2001, 09:19 PM

Not true! I know people with great top of the line tools that can't build a decent box, and folks with only basic tools that can work miracles. Expensive tools don't create skill.

MadMark

01-25-2001, 10:15 PM

Skill is in the hands, not the tools. But having the right tools doesn't hurt either. But although many alternate ways of making something exist, wouldn't it be better if Norm just used the kind of tools that we commonly have? Or at least showed the alternatives instead of automatically going for the exotic tools? It does serve to give the impression to newbies (especially those that are trying to *learn* by watching Norm and don't KNOW how to substitute) need every tool under the sun. How would you know what to substitute if you wern't already a woodworker?

M

Lou_williams

01-25-2001, 10:31 PM

Over the years Norm does use multiple ways to solve the same problem. I have seen him use real expensive tools and then in a later show do it with a less expensive normal tool. The only real difference between his big resaw machine and my band saw is the he has a 3 inch wide blade and I have 1/2 inch blade. The technique is the same.

The majority of the time he using a table saw, RAS and router. I have learned a lot over the years, not as much as my subscription to fine woodworking but still it fun to watch him work. It is also fun to see him use the big 36 inch belt sander. I would never buy one, but it is one that I can dream about for my shop when I hit the super loto.

Lou

Glen

01-26-2001, 06:37 AM

Madark,

This is one of the things I like better about Scott Phillips show. And the WoodWright's show is very hand tool oriented.
There are times I disagree completely with Norm's approach but then he's got the name and making the big bucks. Thats not to say I havn't picked up a tidbit here and there. Just think he distorts the $$ reality for alot of would be woodworkers, the good, bad, and the not so plumb.
I watch these shows and look to pick up a tip or technique. I can't say I've ever done one of their projects. I prefer to create my own plans, in fact I often don't use any plans. I know what I want and know how to achieve it so I just do it
So take these shows for what there worth. And understand they're not the gossipal of woodworking.

Glen

WhiskeyMan

01-26-2001, 09:24 AM

Well let's see....
This formum collectively has stated:

Norm's shop is a dream and unattainable for most of us.
(I have a good shop, only not as big)

Norm uses too many exotic power tools that "WE" can't have.
(I have almost everything Norm has, just not as expensive or big)

Norm has many, many backstage people doing all his set up.
(My wife sweeps up occasionally and if asked nice will help me push large sheet stock through my TS)

We never get to see his mistakes
(ie: expensive firewood which we ALL have).

Norm is a great carpenter but only a good cabinet maker.
(We all have our niche in life, huh?)

Norm uses too many nails and screws. It ain't *PURE* to do that.
(A lot of my projects would fall apart without nails and screws)

My opinion?

Norm is a talented wood worker that got lucky and thanks to Bob Villa and PBS, struck it semi rich. He's personable and dynamic. He has a great show that many of us (pro and hobbiest), love to watch. ..............and if you watch CLOSE enough, you will see those mistakes, even on-camera.

just IMHO....................

Ark

01-26-2001, 01:01 PM

Norm makes people like me who have no real talent for woodworking keep on trying and having fun. I'll trade 25 minutes of hardware commercials for a little insperation. Thank goodness for those who can instill a desire to learn.

Rod

01-27-2001, 12:39 PM

You hit the nail on the head, Whiskeyman. I too have just about every tool Norm has, though most are cheaper. When the show first began, he used a Shopsmith I believe. So The New Yankee Workshop began the same way a lot of us did, and grew with time, experience, and money. Part of the fun is getting new tools, and learning by experience. Few start out with a shopful of tools, "exotic" or not, and none start out experienced. Really, it never occurred to me to ridicule The New Yankee Workshop for any of these things until I read them on the internet. I was happy to see a show about woodworking with a host I could understand, and who built projects I could build, with tools I already owned. And back then, I didn't have anywhere near the tools I have now.

Lou_williams

01-28-2001, 04:12 AM

Glen,

On this point you and I agree totally. I watch Norm and Scot, and the woodwrights shows for entertainment, motovation and tips. I have never bought a plan and if I need one I make a plan, sometimes is some scratches on scrap paper, sometimes a full cad drawing with joint details and full measurements. Depends on what I am building and how much I worry about the cost of the paper vs the wood.

But, for me I just can't stand Scot, I like Norm.

Different strokes for different fokes.

Lou

Jim

01-29-2001, 02:15 PM

Grasshopper, if you need a little inspiration in your shop, go to "http://www.newyankee.com/images/NormAbram.jpg" and you can have your very own "autographed" picture of The Master.

Jim

01-29-2001, 02:15 PM

Grasshopper, if you need a little inspiration in your shop, go to "http://www.newyankee.com/images/NormAbram.jpg" and you can have your very own "autographed" picture of The Master.

Mike

01-30-2001, 01:23 AM

I've been hearing alot about Norm and his corporate sponsers, but the fact is he doesn't have any sponsers. While it's true that a lot of his tools are donated by the mfg. he will not endorse one tool over the other. All he will say is that he won't use a tool that does not perform well.

Mike

01-30-2001, 01:28 AM

John,
excellant comment

Glen

01-30-2001, 07:10 AM

Sorry
I don't hero worship the guy. A little envy time to time, free tools are great! I enjoy the pictures/plans of the cedar strip canoe I'm building much, much more.

Glen

Lou_williams

01-30-2001, 01:35 PM

As you read these post you will find I like Norm. Have respect for him and have learned a lot from him. But, he or his show is underwritten by tool manufactures. And it is those tool manufactures that have donated the fancy tools he has. He has skill and has made things with very basic tools to big fancy tools, but his income is from in large measure from Delta, PC and others.

I am in Marketing and I know what the pressure is like. He won't recommend a tool that doesn't work, but if one good tool is paying the bills and one good tool is not which one is going to get used.