Ryobi BT3000 table saw

[Michael White]

I just bought a ryobi BT3000 table saw and need to get some opinions. I would like to do some cabinet work with it but I'm wondering if it will be acurate enough. I used to work in a shop with a Delta 10" contractor saw, and a 52" biesmyer fence. I know I can't expect too much from the Ryobi, but is it a total waste of time trying to make decent cabinets with it?

The Ryobi fits my price range and space limitations so it would be great if I could use it.

Your opinions PLEASE!

Thanks
Mike

[Jim Barry, Gander, Newfoundland]

Hi,

I've own the Ryobi BT3000 for about 3 years now. I've made literally 100 of projects including bookcases, tables, cabinets, benches, chests and on and on and on.

The saw is good value for the money. Here's a valuable web site for Ryobi users http://170.181.72.27/Ryobi/

Woodwork Safely,

Jim Barry
http://www.woodchuckcanuck.com

[Dave in Cairns]

G'Day Michael, congrats on your new saw. I've been using the BT3K for over seven years and can highly recommend it's accuracy . Like most tools , the initial set up and regular maintenance is paramount. It will take up to 2 hours to fine tune this saw but once done will save many hours of mucking around. The rip fence should be set up so that it locks down at the front parallel to the blade, before locking at the outfeed end. Similarly , the SMT needs to be square when the front locks are activated, the rear locks just stabilize and secure. Just one other thing , remove all traces of grease from the raise and lower mechanism and use either a dry graphite powder or a dry silicon lube . The grease works fine until sawdust sticks to it and eventually makes it so tight that the whole mechanism is overly stressed.
Have fun and be safe !

[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/images/main_desk&chair.jpg]

[Earl Huggins]

I owned a BT3000 for about three years and built many cabinets
and pieces of furniture. I hear a lot of bad mouthing about it
but I only had one problem. The dual arrangement of raising/
lowering the blade and tilting the blade leaves a lot to be
desired. Other than that it was a good saw for me. Now have
a more expensive saw but it does not cut any better nor any more
accurate than my BT3M. I think you will like it. Earl in Las
Vegas, NV

[Pink]

>I just bought a ryobi BT3000
>table saw and need to
>get some opinions. I
>would like to do some
>cabinet work with it but
>I'm wondering if it will
>be acurate enough. I used
>to work in a shop
>with a Delta 10" contractor
>saw, and a 52" biesmyer
>fence. I know I
>can't expect too much from
>the Ryobi, but is it
>a total waste of time
>trying to make decent cabinets
>with it?
>
>The Ryobi fits my price range
>and space limitations so it
>would be great if I
>could use it.
>
>Your opinions PLEASE!
>
>Thanks
>Mike
I've used this saw with no problems for over 5 yrs.
If you use the extension tables and your router, you can build
a base for it to hold all you wood tools.
I've never had any problems with accuracy but it's a good idea
to check the sliding miter table for movement about every 6 months.

[truth]

I think some guys on this thread work for Ryobi.

[Mike]

I hate to say it but I have to aggree with what "truth" said.

Anyone who makes funiture like the pieces you show in your pictures is not using a Ryobi table saw.

Nice try.

[Dave in Cairns]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-00 AT 08:33AM (CDT)[p]All I can say is , you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Unlike many "Woodworkers " , I gained my skills over a 30 year period , not by plugging in a power tool . If you check out the link below , you will see pics of my shop . You will notice the one and only TS there is a Ryobi. After you have accused me of lying , the least I'll expect is an apology.

http://australianwoodartclub.homestead.com/workshop.html

[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/galleries/g04/spice2.jpg]

[Dave in Cairns]

Interestingly , the email I sent to you directly was returned . Why ? Because you don't even have the balls to list your correct email address. Guess we all know who the shonky is now don't we Mike?

[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/galleries/g06/writingdesk1.jpg]

[Dave in Cairns]

Your main problem is you don't think before you type. Click on the photo link and you'll see I work for myself, not Ryobi. I also have other brand tools that I'm happy to recommend too.

[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/awa_explorer/galleries/g0b/backgammonfront.jpg]

[Mike]

I do apoligize, in sack cloth and ashes.

As far as my e-mail address goes Palisades Park, New Jersy, USA public library. I am not tring to hide from you :).

I have a question though, and this is why I thought the way I did before. I have not used this saw very much, I just bought it, and dont have too much time, but I can see that the setup is not as acurate as, let's say, even just a Delta contractors saw.

Ryobi says that this saw is ready to go from the box. That's far from true. First of all the moveable table is not flush with the main table. The front is 1/32 lower than the main table, and the rear is 1/16 lower. It looks like I have to shim it in the back to raise it flush with the main table and than leave it put. So much for that convienance! If you dont, and let's say you cut a panel 12 to 15" wide it will rock on the table unless you keep pressure on the main table which can get your hand pretty close to the blade.

I would like to say more but now I gotta run.

With sincere appology
Mike

[Dave in Cairns]

For a starters, in this day of mass production very little is ready to go out of the box , especially precision woodworking equipment. The BT3K is one of the few TS s that offer fine adjustments for everything . Most TSs don't event have a SMT .
This table should be slightly higher than the fixed table and this can be achieved by setting up the guide rails correctly, and adjusting the clamp hold downs. A full tune up on this saw will take around 2-3 hrs but is well worth the effort.

[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/awa_explorer/galleries/g0a/mainbed_sm.jpg]

[jeramiah shastid]

nice work you do i learned with hand tools and you are absolutly right its the worker 99% tools1% I would like to get plans for that table and chair if you sell or give them out Jay

[jeramiah shastid]

to Dave in Cairns by the way my e-mail is satdiver@aol.com I had asked if you offer the plans for the table and chair i saw in your reply about the table saw

[Dave in Cairns]

Sorry mate , I don't work from plans at all . Each piece is unique and original mainly because I work out of my head. The commissioning client gets a rough sketch to see what they're paying for , but that's it. How would you draw plans for something like this anyhow??
[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/galleries/g06/box2.jpg]

[cdunlap]

All I can say regarding the doubters squabbling over your table saw choice is the proof is in the pudding. Your work is awesome and you can even spell, to boot.

I hope some day I'm ready to try a project as challenging as some you've shown on your site.

[Ken]

Dave:

Hey mate, cut ole Dave a little slack. After all he did apologize for his comment. :) Incidentally, you obviously do exceptional work. I for one certainly envy your craftsmanship.

Mike, with respect to your concern regarding your new saw. Tweek it till you have it perfect or until it meets your criteria. ONce used to it's particular quirks I'm sure you'll love it.

[john]

I've been playing with woodworking for a short while and always assumed that the skill involved was with the craftsman and not the equipment.

I do not own a Ryobi - just a good old fashioned 300 lb cast iron unit with a 2hp motor on the back, a good solid and accurate fence (not an overpriced fancy named one - just one that locks soilid and accurate. This saw cuts true, parallel and consistent. I set this saw up with machinists micrometers and is deadly accurate.

My point is that saws like Ryobi can be great instruments as long as the skill and patience of the craftsman exists. Take the time to tune the instrument and look after it, it will do just fine. If some people expect "craftsmanship" out-of-the-box, you need to look for a better hobby.

I chuckle when I read people spending hundreds of dollars on dovetail jigs and then complaining that the dovetails don't look "handmade" enough. Ever thought of doing it by hand to get that "handmade" look - guess that requires skill and not money + electrical outlet.

[Mike]

Hurray for you john! It's nice to know that there are still REAL woodworkers out there.

But I have to say I think you REAL woodworkers should get off your high horse. There are different kinds of people, with different interests and needs. What's wrong with a FAMILY man who would like to buy some equiptment to build some custom pieces for prcatical living at home (and saving money to boot)and then have the equiptment for future use. Is that so bizzar? You guys talk like you want everyone to spend thier life in the shop. This is the 21th century. People have other interests too. If you like to be in the shop good for you, but dont think everyone has to think like you.

I can just imagine reading a thread between you and a caveman.

john : "I use a block plane. I'm gooooood."

caveman : "What's the matter with you john, I use a sharp stone. Your not a real woodworker like me."

Enjoy your dovetails, I'll enjoy my kids. :)

[Dave Brewer]

Mike
i will say i agree that my Ryobi is a nice tool for an amateur woodworker like myself. Though it was pretty difficult to set the machine up to make square cuts ( i often thought about taking it back)i am pleased with what this machine an do. Like most working class guys money is a little tight and i think for the money the Ryobi is a great saw. If there are any complaints to be had i think the availability of accessory parts has to be one of them. I tried online purchasing and was not pleased at all, I got my saw at Home Depot and the only way i can get accesories is through them ( sometimes i have better conversations with myself), but i did notice Sears has a saw just like the Ryobi with the Craftsman name on it, so maybe in time that will make the access of parts a little easier. I was very pleased to see a fellow woodworker has addressed this issue and posted a site to get these parts, Thanks. Overall though i am very pleased with this tool after the initial frustrations of setup.

[Nicholas]

Hello everyone,
I have a Ryobi TS also. One thing that bothers me about this saw is the fact that the miter gauge doesn't run in a miter slot. I'm sure there are some advantages to this design, but one disadvantage is that many of the jigs (such as a tenoning jig) are made to run in a slot. In order to get such a jig, I have to build one myself that slips over the rip fence. If there's a Ryobi tenoning jig that I'm not aware of, then I apologize up front. Building a jig myself is not a bad thing, but there are many jigs on the market to increase a woodworker's efficiency, and it would be nice to tap into that market.
Have any of the other respondents had any similar issues? Dave, your work is quite impressive, and I was thinking that maybe you have run into this issue at sometime.

Thanks,
Nicholas

[ed]

Are these saws noisy? 18000 RPM is really fast

[Mike]

You can buy a miter slot accessary from ryobi that fits this saw. It's about 60. dollers.

[John]

Where? I would love to have a regular slot for my jigs, but the accessory you're talking about is not on Ryobi's site, nor is it in the accessory catalog that accompanies the demo units at retailers.

Anybody else heard of this or where to find it?

John

[Dave in Cairns]

Nicholas , I've never had a problem with the absence of a mitre slot on the BT3K although I know there is an attachment available. As for standard slot jigs , there is no such thing with many differing slot sizes. When cutting tenons , I use the SMT, so the piece is horizontal and by using the ripping fence as a stop , the resulting tenon is always cut cleanly.
[link:www.australianwoodart.com|http://www.australianwoodart.com/full%20set.JPG]

[ed]

Is the sears version of this saw (I think its 22811) any different (modified, less features, etc?

[dave brewer]

i have the Ryobi saw and really like it.......took a little while to get used to...... but a good machine none the less....i had a terible time finding a miter slot accessory...... i think home depot can order... or woodworkers warehouse........ or even sears... they put a craftsman name on a ryobi and put it on their floor...try these places... im sure you will find one....i e mailed the web site... they said they dont sell enough of them to speial order but they were workin on it......that was a year ago.....the saw is comparable in noise to others.... maybe a little less.....

dave

[John]

It has a Craftsman sticker on it. Not to be a smart-ass, but that's the absolute only difference. When I bought mine, I brought the Sears guy the Home Depot flyer with the Ryobi and he price-matched it for the Craftsman equivalent.

[Jimmy]

I've read some of your replies about this saw and I think you completely overrate it.

Here's why, the first and most important thing about a table saw is the TABLE, does that make sense? Read any book about table saws and you will find that the first thing that a person does to fine tune the saw is to check the table for flatness with a true strait edge. This Ryobi Saw has only a few inches of table on each side of the blade. The SMT, and the extention table are far from true (unless you file and shim the things to get them close, and then don't think about moving them!)

This might be a good saw for the money, but "Precision", I dont think so.

Jimmy

[Ken Able]

Jimmy:
"This Ryobi Saw has only a few inches of table on each side of the blade."
This statement in and of itself tells me you don't have a clue about the BT3000, unless of course you consider 18" to the left of the blade and 19" to the right of the blade to be "a few inches". This is of course without the addition of the wide table kit. I doubt that you own a BT3000 but if you do you must have known about what you have deemed to be "a few inches of table on each side of the blade", so why did you buy it?.

Moral-If you don't have hands on experience with a tool, then leave the comments to those who do.

And if you do have hands on experience with the tool and bought said tool knowing full well that:
"This Ryobi Saw has only a few inches of table on each side of the blade." what does that say about your wisdom?
Ken

[dave brewer]

agreed

[Mitch]

Whoa Ken,
Are we a little angry?

[John]

Who would buy the extension table anyway? I built a cabinet for mine (and yes it's flat). I wouldn't hesitate to use the word "precision" in reference to the BT3000.

I hate to admit this, but I'm a "play now, setup later" guy. I'll usually get a tool put together enough that it'll turn on, then play with it for a couple weeks, then when I have nothing better to do, set it up.

I was pleasantly suprised to find out that other than a very slight adjustment of the fence (maybe 1/32 over the whole run of it), it was perfectly flat, square, true...whatever you want to call it right out of the box.

John

[Ken Able]

Not angry at all Mitch. It's just a case of bewilderment rather than anger that motivated my response to "Jimmy". His statement that "This Ryobi Table Saw has only a few inches of table on either side of the blade" is so grossly in error that It became apparent that he is totally unfamiliar with the Table Saws physical charactistics let alone the saws capabilities. There is a total of 36 1/2" of table area which is more than most (if not all) of the 10" Table saws. I don't know if there are others that share my opinion that a person should have hands on experience with a given tool before he/she provides a statement based on less than fact but that has always been my thinking. It's one thing to say " from what I've heard", or "I was told that" or "it's my opinion that" but Jimmys statement was not prefaced with any of those words, rather it was written as fact and that is very misleading to a person who is considering the purchase of a power tool. I did not even get into his "opinion" about the BT3000 not being a Precision Table Saw--I would think that Dave in Carins work pretty well answers that subject.
Ken

[Lou_williams]

I don't own a ryobi saw. I have checked them out. I wouldn't waste any of my money on what I consider a toy for the uneducated consumer. Can David in Carnes do great work, YES, but, I am willing to bet he could do the same with a coping saw and hand tools the man is a craftsman. It is clear from his work. Tools don't make a wood worker. Skills make a woodworker. Tools help to cut down the effort required to do the work and in some cases make it go faster for the same effort.

Great Furniture has been built for hundreds of years, and the table saw was invented in the last 100. So you don't need a table saw to make great pieces.

But, this thing you owners are raving about is not a precession piece of woodworking equipment. It is a glorified router on legs with a saw blade mounted to the collet. The table is a joke and the whole thing looks like it was designed without any knowledge of woodworking.

I have been cutting wood for over 30 years. I have an engineering Degree. I have used lots of different tools, and have lots of experience with buying good and not so good tools.

If you are happy with yours that fine. But, to tell others that this thing is a precession tool don't go there.

[Dave in Cairns]

As you yourself have mentioned , you don't even own this saw but you are willing to denigrate all those who do .Yes , I am a craftsman , actually trained as a shipwright, and have worked with timber and WW machinery most of my 47 years. I think I'd have a fair idea , of what works well and what doesn't , even though I can't brag about an engineering degree. I do this for a living , so I'm not going to stuff around with an inferior piece of equipment.
You go further, to show all, your total lack of knowledge of the BT3K, by describing this saw as a "glorified router with a blade." Funny you didn't mention this machine has the best dust extraction in the business , the biggest depth of cut of any 10" TS and that this machine comes with many features , that other manufacturers call optional. You also seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking this saw is direct drive. It is not . I would suggest to you that you give advice on that which you know and leave the BT3K advice to those who actually have set up ,own and operate this equipment.

[Lou_williams]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-01 AT 05:25AM (CDT)[p]David,

I was very interested in some of your posts on this tool and I went to my local Home depot and checked out the saw I found there. The one on display was direct drive. The motor was about the same size and my 3 hp router and was poorly mounted. The signs on the saw called it a BT3000. If it isn't then I don't know what Home Depot is selling. Most of the parts of the saw were falling off, the base was real flimsy. I would not have bought that saw for $50.00 let alone the price they wanted.

I remember you telling someone it was not direct drive, That is why I crawled under the dam thing to check it out. It was not to prove you wrong, but it was to learn what you and a few other liked about this tool. I still don't see it.

Like I said. I like and respect your work. It is very very nice. You make beautiful pieces that I would be honored to own. I am happy that you and the others like it. But, is the one they sell today the same saw you bought. That is what I don't understand. The unit I saw and spent a lot of time with is nothing like what you have described.

If I am wrong, I will post an apology to you and the others. But, I would have to see something different than what I have seen to date.

Now right next to the Roybi was the new Dewalt 10 inch Contractors saw. That is a fine tool. Much better than I ever expected it to be based on what I have read and seen from Dewalt. Inclosed motor, saw dust extraction, large cast iron table, good fence that seems to be stable. Easy to operate blade adjustments. And no direct drive. Again I believe you that yours isn't direct drive. The one I saw was direct drive. At least that is what I call it when the blade is mounted to the shaft that comes out of the motor, That is the thing with the wires coming out of it.


I had stayed out of this BT3000 love feast and looked at it with humor and interest until Ken blasted someone for an opinion that didn't match his own lofty one of himself and his tool.

It deserved to be challenged. I have made a point on this board to respect everyone here. But this party of yours is just too much for me to stay quiet about, when you blast people for honest opinions.

[Dave in Cairns]

It's interesting to hear a man with a degree in electrical engineering describe a motor as "the thing with wires coming out of it" . Although you insist the saw you inspected is direct drive , I'm sure that a closer look will reveal that this , also is belt driven with two multi-vee belts. Just because the motor isn't hanging off the back of the saw , doesn't mean it's direct drive. Check out the manual and you'll see the exploded parts diagram clearly shows much, much more than you can possibly see without stripping the machine down. Perhaps it's also possible that the sales staff at Home Depot didn't put the saw together properly and certainly not with the attention to detail a new owner would . This saw came on to the market in about 91 and I believe many hundreds of thousands are in use all over the world. I have recently acquired a new version , and the new model is hardly changed from the original model. I suggest you have a closer look at this saw , who knows , direct drive may not be the only thing you are wrong about.

[Ken Able]

You post"

"I had stayed out of this BT3000 love feast and looked at it with humor and interest until Ken blasted someone for an opinion that didn't match his own lofty one of himself and his tool.

Neither Jimmy nor yourself cast your comments as "opinions" but offer them as fact when both of you admit to not having ever used the TS. That is the problem that I had with Jimmys post and have with your post. You make statements like:

"But, this thing you owners are raving about is not a precession piece of woodworking equipment. It is a glorified router on legs with a saw blade mounted to the collet. The table is a joke and the whole thing looks like it was designed without any knowledge of woodworking."

All this verbage demeaning a product you have no hands on experience with that you state, not as your "opinion", but as though it were fact is very misleading and just plain wrong.

Don't know where you got the idea that I have a "lofty opinion" of myself, since I did not include my educational background, my woodworking experience nor my profession as you did below:

"I have been cutting wood for over 30 years. I have an engineering Degree. I have used lots of different tools, and have lots of experience with buying good and not so good tools."

Sounds like you are pretty pleased with yourself and should perhaps refrain from accusing others of having "lofty opinions" of themselves.

Get off your high horse Lou and either reflect in your posts that your assessment of a tool is based strictly as an OPINION rather than fact or leave the assessment to those who have used the tool and can base their assessment on FACT.
Ken

[rrich]

There are them's that like the BT3000 and them's that don't.

Can we move on?

I think that Dave may have a "different" model BT3000. His model has to be different than the ones that we get here in the states. Dave aren't you running 50 cycle and 220 volts?

Rich

[Dave in Cairns]

You're right there Rich , actually it's 50Hz and 240V. The motor is configured for Aussie voltage, but that is the only difference. The HP is the same , and all the workings are identical including drive via two multi-vee belts. The problems seem to arise when people who have had little or nothing to do with this saw state, as fact , things which any owner knows, are completely false. For instance , those of us with these machines know , that there is no way that the motor mounting can be seen from crawling underneath the saw, yet we have someone who is willing to state that the motor is poorly mounted. Gimme a break !

[Ken Able]

Sure we can move on as far as I am concerned but you need to know that my posts were never about "There are them's that like the BT3000 and them's that don't." You should be able to see that if you read my posts. I certainly understand that the BT3000 is not everyones cup of tea but quite frankly I could care less if I was the only one in the world that was happy with the tool as long as it did what I asked of it which it does.
It seems that some have lost sight of the fact that Michael White, the original poster has already purchased the BT3000 and was asking if the saw was accurate enough for cabinet work.
Since I own the saw and have built a few cabinets that are accurate, I feel a little more qualified than some (who have only looked at the saw at Home Depot) to offer my assessment and I am not hesitant to answer in the affirmative. If that is considered by some to be a "lofty" opinion, then so be it.
Ken

[Jorgens]

I have been reading this thread very carefully. I spent quite a bit of time trying to make sure Dave in Cairns was not just putting up someone else’s photos and claiming them for his own work. I almost couldn’t believe he could own the Ryobi saw and say he was creating those works of art at the same time.

I looked at the Ryobi myself in Home Depot. In my mind it was nothing more than a flimsy toy. I tugged on the fence and it was loose. The miter gauge looked rickety. I just was not impressed. To me it looked like a glorified bench saw. I thought it was pricey as well. My brother has one and he loves it. He is not a skilled craftsman though so his opinion counted for little in my mind.

After reading through this thread I have an entirely different opinion of this Ryobi saw. It is obvious to me now this is not your ordinary table saw. This saw is in a class by itself. It really only has vague similarities to the regular table saw. But there are major differences as Dave and others have pointed out. It turns at 18,000 RPM. It has that sliding table that comes only on larger more expensive saws. The drive mechanism is different. According to Dave it has many areas of adjustment other saws don’t have. I’ve heard it has one of the best blade guards available. So it appears to me this saw is better thought out than I originally gave its designers credit for.

I am thinking of this TV commercial where one of the actors says, “Maybe its not really a minivan.” Its obvious there is a lot that makes this saw stand in a class by itself. So now my opinion is it should not be compared directly with other table saws. It looks like a regular bench saw. But I have seen it reviewed with contractor’s saws. This saw has me so curious now I want to go out and get one just so I can tinker around with it and see what makes it so unique!

This thread has really taught me a lesson about judging tools by appearance and comparing tools with other tools. It is also obvious to me that this saw is for the open-minded. Some people are just plain set in their ways and aren’t going to accept something so different as this saw. That’s human nature. We gravitate towards the familiar and we are repulsed by the unfamiliar.

One thing I know for sure, you cannot go into Home Depot and get a good idea what this saw is all about. They slap tools together in there for display purposes only. This saw is obviously a saw that you have to spend some quality time with to get acquainted with its unique features and adjustments.

Japanese hand tools get the same reactions as this Ryobi saw is getting in this thread. Japanese tools are very “foreign” in appearance to people who are used to regular planes and dovetail saws, etc. However those Japanese tools in the hands of skilled craftsmen are used to made fantastic objects. And they are slowly being adopted in other countries.

Thanks guys for opening my eyes. I feel like a new man!!

[George]

Just a couple of errors in your post ... some others have made the same mistake. The BT3000 "spins" at 4800 RPM, unloaded, not 18000 RPM as has been stated by you and others. If you are really interested in this machine, go to the Ryobi Company site and visit their tool forum @ http://www.ryobi.com/dcforum/, then visit another site maintained by one of the machine's owners, Sam Conder @ http://www.samconder.com/ryobi/. The very fact that they even have a web presense devoted to the user's concerns and interests puts them in a league of their own (none of the other tool manufacturs are doing this, to my knowledge). After you've done all that, you might have a much different opinion of the Ryobi BT3000 Wood Working system.

Regards,
George

[Jorgens]

I did go to the website listed earlier and also to the Ryobi site. I found that the motor itself spins at 18,000 RPM (which explains the high pitched whine I've heard about from reviewers) and is then geared down to spin the blade at 4800 RPM which gives it higher torque. Truly this is the most unique saw to come along in years.

[Jorgens]

Another thing that I think is important is that someone pointed out this saw first came out in 91 or 93 and is still basically the same saw today. If there more major flaws in that saw people would have complained and it would have undergone major design changes. That simply says to me this is a very well thought out saw.

[Ken Able]

I know exactly where you are coming from when it comes to the Home Depot BT3000 floor unit. The one at my local HD has the Sliding Miter Table mounted backwards, the guard is bent so that the riving knife does not line up with the blade and the top of the saw is being used to store various parts that have nothing to do with the saw. From what I have read in other posts, this is a common occurence in many Home Depot stores across the country. I see this as a result of HD pushing hard to encourage potential TS buyers to buy their Rigid brand and would venture to guess that the pressures to sell the Rigid brand is coming from upper HD management. Just MHO. I can see why people would be turned off if their only exposure to the saw was by looking at a HD BT3000 display.
Ken

[Larry Nelson]

I'm new to this forum, but not new to woodworking. If any open-minded folks out there want to see the BT3K in action, just ask. I, and probably MOST woodworkers, are proud of our workshops and love showing off our toys, err tools, to other craftsmen. E-mail me at iceandfire1@msn.com. I live in southern Indiana, but other Ryobi TS owners live near you, I'll bet. And let's stop the opinions stated as facts.


Larry Nelson

[Ken Able]

George:
The link you posted is a little off. Try http://www.ryobi.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi
Ken

[Uncle Jack]

Lou,

Have seen the BT3K on display at a few HD's, Lowe's and Sears. They do not take very much care in how it is assembled. In fact, more than once I thought that Ryobi should send their salespeople around and fix the sloppy assembly of display models, but that probably would never happen. I know the difference between sloppy assembly work and design/manufacturing problems. The BT3K does have a few quarks, but not enough to disqualify it as a good TS.

-unc

[Jim Frye]

Ed: I measured my BT3000 with a decible meter at ear level at 87 dBa in a 12'x12' basement workshop. I measured a 3 hp. Powermatic 66 table saw in a 12'x12' basement workshop at 86 dBa. Most contractor table saws measure between 84 and 90 dBa in past published magazine tests. Jim

[Jimmy]

I own this saw and you dont know how to read a ruler.

The table is SEVEN INCHES WIDE, 5" ON THE RIGHT OF THE BLADE AND 2" ON THE LEFT. Every thing else is the SM table and the removeable table, which are not perfectly true to the base table without filing and shimming and what else.

I dont know what your looking at.

Jimmy

[John]

I hope nobody that's contributing to this heated debate has a dialup Internet connection; it's getting to be rather a large document, what with the pictures and the italics and what not.

Sorry, just thought I'd lighten the mood a little.

PS - I like my BT3000, but if you don't, I can live with that.

[Ken Able]

Jimmy:
It took you 6 days to come up with THAT?. I really don't understand what exactly you are trying to prove. You made a bad purchase decision??, you are using the TS sans the SMT table and accessory table??. Since you say you own the BT3000 and are so unhappy with it why don't you sell it and buy what makes you happy?. BTW I did not have to "shim and file" to make the tables line up with the BASE, everything was fine out of the box. If yours required shimming and filing to get it to line up, you had 30 days to return it, so why didn't you???. Hmmmmm I think it's Check and Mate Jimmy.
Ken

[Gringo]

Jimmy sounds good what type of saw do you have ?

[Gringo]

By the way that is the only reason I am looking in this forum is to see if I can find a recomendation to replace my BT3K. I am dumping it . Sorry fellas its not for me. I am not a super craftsman and I cant see a 32'of an inch. I do need a tuff relyable portable table saw that doesnt need constant maintence and adjusting. I'm sure you guys are going to shread me for my spelling and call me a hack carpenter . But I am not that hard on my tools, most of them I have had for a long time and I use them 40 hours a week. This BT3K I have had for about 6 months and the blade would not raise without reaching underneath and giving the motor a push up. Okay I didnt lub the silly metal shims but should I really have to after only 6 months? When looked under to see what was wrong I see that the entire motor assembly was suported by a vertical threaded rod about 5/8. The rod was not supported at the top just mounted at the bottom. When the blade is raised all the way that must be alot of leverage on that rod flexing it. Not to mention if you were cuttig a dado or riping a big piece . How could the blade not move down ? The threaded rod must flex. And then put stress on the metal shims causeing the whole asssembly to bind up . I thought, shouldnt there be another rod on the back side of the motor aswell as the front to help even out the load? Well another crew showed up on the job recently with the Bosch 4000 portable table saw. I had a look underneath and surprise there is a second rod to help even the load. I have been using they're Bosch and it is really nice , except the dust extraction is bad you really get a face full. On a hot day when you are sweating you look like a piece od fried chicken after a few cuts. But the fence is really great locks in very nice tight and square . And the saw is ready to go right out of the box perfect for lazy ones like me. However after reading reviews I see some owners of the Bosch have developed the same problems as the BT3K with the blade raiseng binding up? Is it the deisgn with the threaded rod it gives you that great hieght adjustment but is it unstable. Is the older system with the separate controls one for rasieing and one for tilt more stable. Help I need a new saw soon these guys are leaving the job soon . I need a portable maybe contractors but prefer smaller . I want a great fence without alot of maintence. and blade raiseing that wont fail so easy. I shove plywood through there and alot of riping big stock but I am gentle compared to most guys ion the job. Any suggestions?

[Lou_williams]

Based on what you want and the work you do, I would suggest you take a look at the DeWalt. It might be a bit bigger than what you want, but it got a good review from Fine Woodworking. Good sawdust extraction and for a small low end saw well made.

[Chris S]

I can't say that I've used the Bosch, but I have about 8 months on my DeWalt 744. I don't use it for a living, I'm just a hobby woodworker. Anyways, It's been great so far. I've made cabinets and other furniture with it. It turns a stacked dado cutter with no problem. The fence is the best I've seen on this type of saw. Lastly, the dust collection WORKS! Like any other saw, it requires a GOOD BLADE!. If you're near Metro Detroit area, mine is going up for sale, if not, best price with a stand is $499.00 for a new one.

Why am I going to sell mine? I bought this saw because I thought I would be using it in different locations, and you know how that goes... My saw has yet to move out of my basement. So... I'm going to buy a new Jet contractors because in my opinion, in the $500.00 range, it's no doubt the best bang for the buck.

If you have any questions on the DeWalt, let me know.

Chris

[WoodMangler]

Hola gringo...
Sorry to hear the saw didn't work out for you...too bad you didn't find the Ryobi Forum before buying it...the guys there would have told you that the BT3000 is NOT a good choice for a throw in the truck and run plywood through it kind of saw.
Good luck with your next purchase...
Marc

[Dave in Cairns]

Interesting comments there. Hmmmmmmm, now lets see if you were talking about a vehicle , ready to go out of the crate ? No maintence ? Only a 4 X 5/8 bolts holding a 300HP motor ?

The changes are marked in capitals. Hope you get a laugh from it :D




By the way that is the only reason I am looking in this forum is to see if I can find a recomendation to replace my CAR. I am dumping it . Sorry fellas its not for me. I am not a super MECHANIC and I cant see a THICK PENCIL LINE. I do need a tuff relyable CAR that doesnt need constant maintence and adjusting. I'm sure you guys are going to shread me for my spelling and
call me a hack DRIVER. But I am not that hard on my CARS, most of them I have had for a long time and I use them 40 hours a week. This CAR I have had for about 6 months and the MOTOR would not START without reaching underneath and giving IT a push up. Okay I didnt ADD OIL TO THE silly MOTOR but should I really
have to after only 6 months? When looked under to see what was wrong I see that the entire motor assembly was suported by FOUR HORIZONTAL threaded rod about 5/8. The rod was not supported at the top just mounted at the bottom. When the CLUTCH is DUMPED all the way that must be alot of leverage on THOSE rods flexing it. Not to mention if you were TOWING a TRAILER or DOING A BURNOUT . How could the MOTOR not move down ? The threaded rod must flex. And then put stress on THE BIG END BEARINGS causeing the whole asssembly to bind up . I thought, shouldnt there be another rod on the back side of the motor as well as the front to help even out the load? Well another crew showed up on the job recently with the HUMMER. I had a look underneath and surprise there is a second rod to help even the load. I have
been using they're HUMMER and it is really nice , except the EXHAUST is bad you really get a face full. On a hot day when you are sweating you look like a piece od fried chicken after a few MILES. But the DIFF is really great locks in very nice tight and square . And the HUMMER is ready to go right out of the box perfect for lazy ones like me. I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO PUT OIL OR FUEL IN IT. However after reading reviews I see some owners of the HUMMER have developed the same problems as MY CAR with the
MOTOR SEIZING UP? Is it the deisgn with the OIL NEEDED it gives you that LIFESPAN but is it unstable TO DRIVE ON. Is the older system with the TOTAL OIL LOSS more stable. Help I need a new
CAR soon these guys are leaving the job soon .I need a portable maybe HUMMER but prefer smaller . I want a great CAR without alot of maintence. and TYRES that wont GO FLAT so easy. I shove STAKES through there and alot of BURNOUTS but I am gentle compared to most guys ion the TRACK. Any suggestions?

[WoodRat]

Way to tell the tell Dave. Should earn you a few points on the ryobi forums humor scale id give you a 9 for that post. I do own bt3k and have not had any problems with it at all. I keep a shopvac hooked to it to keep the interior clean and keep the guts lubed with grafite. I like your work. You obviously know the differance between craftsmanship and a wanna be. keep on postin those pics. ps. Mike you got a great saw for the money. I use a delta unisaw at work and have a BT3K in my home shop. There isnt anything that i do with the unisaw that cannot be done on a BT3k ive built cabinets, bookcases, and countless honeydews with the bt3k. enjoy your saw

[gringo]

Wow Dave! How do you have time to make all those fancy pieces of art when you are doing comedy in this forum all the time. You would be Kicked off the job on NYC construction site . Dave says (um excuse me I need one piece 32 and 3/64 please) Vinny at the saw says (you what? forget about it . look pal my tape only has the quater inch marks on it , get off that scaffold and pack up your micrometer.)I didnt ask for a smart ass coment did I dave ? I asked if anyone could recomend another portable table saw besides the Booker Tee 3000. If I was in the shop like you all day, well when your not being the hero of this forum. I would use a unisaw with a nice Bisemeyer fence on it. But I guess the shop and the art is just a hobby for you when your not busy with rocket science or brain surgery or teaching the swimsiut models to wrestle.
Thanks for nothing, Gringo

[Dave in Cairns]

Now there's a great idea , thanks Gringo ! No offense intended , just thought it would be interesting to apply your logic regarding the tools of your trade to a vehicle. Most of us have cars and figured out after the third or fourth one , that if you don't look after them , they don't last long and aren't reliable . The concept of a complex machine designed to cut timber , that needs no adjustment or set up and no maintenance is a pipe dream , especially when you're using it to make your living.

[Ken Able]

and Gawd knows this thread could use it. Sure the humor was at your expense but just how expensive was it?. IMHO the best way would be to combat humor with humor which tells everyone that you are a good sport and can dish it right back. Now if someone got on my case about my spelling or my grammar or insulted my Mother then I would react differently. Life is just to short to sweat the small stuff and hopefully this contraversial thread will die a quick and painless death and we can eventually all become cyber woodworking buddies.
Ken

[Lou_williams]

For once Ken and I agree on something. This thread should die. That was one of my attempts at humor. That this forum should be is a place where we can discuss woodworking and the different ways we all go about our tasks.

There is so much common ground for us to agree and the little points of disagreement should be glossed over and have us move on.

[bill mccarthy]

After reading all the comments on this forum, and the ryobi.com forum, I bought the BT3K. I am still stunned as to how "right on" it is with the mitre cuts for frame making that I am doing. I made minor adjustments, and even though I keep checking them, they are holing great. And, the cut is amazingly smooth. I grabbed a piece of 2X6 that a friend with a cabinet saw at a large woodshop had cut at a 30 degree angle for me. I matched the angle and cut 2" below it. My cut is like glass and looks finished compared to his. Also no loss, of power cuting red oak. I moved the rails over to cut a half sheet of plywood, and had no trouble setting the rails back to a zero setting. Just beginning to use the saw, and so far it has exceeded my greatest expectations. They should be selling a million of these!

Bill, from Maine

[Sailer]

I think I have heard this discussion before only it was PCs and Apples

[Gourdfather]

Sears Power tool catalog, page 147, lower right corner. $49.95 I believe.

John

[Andre]

heheh, you can see this same BTS3000 thread with different posters on a few different sites. It's kind of funny really. Kind of like the early web days (back when porn was free) and all of the debates about using Unix servers vs. early MS servers, or the perlmongers vs. everyone else, or maybe Nutscrape vs. Internet Exploder. All boils down to what you know or believe, and how willing you are to hear what others know or believe, and your methods of communicating back and forth.

Anyway, people tend to be somewhat impersonal in discussion boards. By that I mean they do not respond or react to statements on discussion boards as they would in one on one non-virtual conversations.
Personally, I'd bet that if they put everyone who posted on this thread in a room together, and maybe threw in a few dancing girls and some drinks, that we'd all be talking about woodworking, tools, or the wonderful wood itself, and the girls would be somewhat ignored, and half of the supplied drinks left over at the end of the night. Ok, ok, but I can look at chicks and talk at the same time. Oh alright... We'd probably be making a beer run after a couple of hours... But still, woodworking is fun, allows us to be creative, never gets old(other than sanding...) and there are so many of us out there with our own tips/jigs/ideas and common interests that it is really somewhat upsetting to see threads like this one.

I'm not trying to pick on these two posters to the thread, but merely using them as an example in the following:

I understand the frustration when someone states something as fact when they are wrong, but another way to respond to that is "Actually 'John Doe', from the little you can see when trying to view the inner workings of the machine without disassembling it, I can see where you may have gotten that impression, but in reality, it is belt driven with two v-belts" or something along those lines. I totally admit that his initial post was antagonizing (especially if you're a bts owner like me), but the tone of his post could be related to lack of experience with the saw and his misconceptions with what he saw when he looked at the display model at a companies retail location(who is in direct competition with the bts). Keeping that possibility in mind, you now have the opportunity to be helpful in clearing up his misconceptions, with friendly comments, sharing your experiences etc.. Hell, you have both been in woodworking for quite some time, you can't tell me that both of you don't have a LOT in common... If his statements happened during a casual conversation in a hardware store, he would have delivered them in a much nicer tone, and possibly would have sought your opinion on the matter, and you would not have blasted him, you would have tried to impart your experiences with the BTS to him, most likely in a nice, informative way without trying to make him sound stupid, or uninformed... Think about it...

Other than that, my only beef with the thread was the humor. I admit that I thought it was funny. I've seen similar comparisons between Windows 95/98 and GM cars. Those were funny as hell. My only problem is that it was at the expense of "gringo". You don't know him, how he works or the quality of his finished products. The post, while funny was mean. Myself, I like setting up a new power machine about as much as I like a root canal, but I am totally happy buying a new chisel or plane iron and spending 3 hours setting it up on my waterstones so that the back is honed/flat and my bevel is perfect(my definition of perfect anyway).

Just my two cents.