Bought a sears saw yesterday

[orchardist]

Hello again,

Well yesterday I purchased the Sears - Craftsman 2001-model 09-22859 table saw. After reading some of the other messages I came to a conclusion to buy the sears saw. This saw will be able to do everything that I want if to do and it had a couple other accessories that I wanted and the other saws didn’t. It fit my budget and was the size I wanted. If, for any reason I need parts/repairs or more accessories I think I’ll be able to get them easier at Sears. I don’t care to ship parts for replacement or repairs. I had ship my monitor to the mid-west for warranty work. It cost me 30 bucks to mail it. The above reasons are mostly the reasons I bought a Sears – Craftsman saw. Thanks for the input. Mike

[Bob Savage]

Mike,

I still have my father's old Craftsman 8" cast iron top table saw on home-made plywood base. It still works, but is not in the shop, but in the basement gathering dust.

You're right about service though. When it comes time for service, it's a lot better to have a repair facility locally, instead of somewhere halfway around the world.

I have a Delta Unisaw, but I have a repair place here in town that does all of the Delta repair work, so that makes it local for me.

A few years ago I was having trouble with my Delta jointer. It would not adjust properly. I had ben fighting this for years. I finally took the 8" bed only to the repair shop here, and they determined the bed was warped. I guess they ground it while it was still green in Brazil where it was machined.

Anyway, even though it was 2 years out of warranty, Delta replaced the entire bed and knives for no charge, since they determined it was a manufacturing error in the first place.

Now that is service.

Bob

[Lou_williams]

I would strongly suggest you take back that saw and get your money back.

I know that you feel that you got a good deal, I know you trust sears service, but read more of the posts on this board.

You might be lucky and get the one good tool that Sears has sold in the past few years, but I doubt it.
You are going to need the service but, for the most part after they fix it you will still have a boat ancher. Not a tool.

I have a 31 year old Sears TS. That is when they built some good tools. But I still spent over 1000 since then to make it into a tool that will do what I need. New motor, new pullys and belts, Biesemeyer fence, Cabinet with outfeed rollers, new miter guage, precission cross cut tool. I also have bought some special tools to properly set up the saw. Dial indicators, precision milled plates that bolts on to the arbor to give a large surface area to make the adjustments against.

This is a better tool than you just bought, and it has some serious limitations. The blade tilt is a poor system, The sawdust extraction is always a problem.

You will find very few people that have bought a Sears tool in the past 10 years that have anything good to saw about them.

You will spend more money to make that tool cut accurately than it is worth. And when you are done you will still have a table saw no one else will want to buy from you. If you buy a used name brand you could sell it for what you paid for it in 10 years from now.

[MadMark]

If you bought a Sears saw yesterday you should buy a new blade today and a new fence tomorrow.

I have a Sears TS that is about a year old. At first it seemed to cut OK, but then I discovered that the Align-a-rip fence is a piece of junk. The basic saw is ok, butI had to spend another $500 on it to get a replacement fence and miter gauge to make it accurate.

Sears 30 years ago was a "can't miss" tool store. However this ain't your fathers Sears. Their power tool quality has fallen off the chart. I've taken them off my list after a series of failures of their gear.

M

[Ken F.]

There certainly seems to be a lot of negitive thought in all forums regarding Sears products. Major tools to be more specific.
It's a real shame that this old, and trusted, company has allowed product quality to slide this far. It seems obvious to me that, to continue on this course will eventually result in their demise.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't confined to their tool line. I have a dishwasher that they have totally rebuilt three times and is still defective. Have one of their $1200 refridgerators which is now out of warranty and ice maker on the fritz.

Is it the manufacturers fault? Possibly. But Sears products are manufactured to SEARS specifications.

Question is, how do we as consumers turn this around?

Comments welcomed. :)

Ken

[MadMark]

Simple. Stop buying inferior products. They'll either get the message or go out of business.

M

[Lou_williams]

GE anounced today that they are closing down their Wards Department Stores. The poor second level Sears of the past.

It is interesting that Sears moved its Advertising and focus to the "softer side of Sears" a few years ago. It also appears to me that they stopped focusing on what they built their business on in the first place.

I don't think that Sears will be able to make it long term. They are under attack from all sides. The Web is going after their catalog business, Major National retailers are killing their store business and they have killed their tool business.

It is a very sad state of what used to be a great company.

[Burt]

Do yourself a huge favor and take it back tomorrow. It just isn't anywhere close to a delta of the same price range.

[Bob Savage]

IMO the problem with the quality of Sears these days is the same problem that exisits through the manuacturing/retailing sector.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE STOCKHOLDERS! — it is no longer about the customer. Profit, Profit, and more profit, who cares if it isn't a quality piece. We can rely on our old name that has stood for decades.

Well, maybe, and maybe not.

I want quality, that's why many of my tools are old ones, but they are built to last. That's hy I bought good ones. I have a Craftsman radial arm saw. It works great, and has for 18 years, back when they built them to last, and not to wear out.

I don't know what can be done about this, but I don't buy unless I am pretty sure it is a quality piece, or tool. I will pay more if I know it is made well and will last.

Bob

[rrich]

Bob,
You're almost on the right track. The current philosophy in business today is raise the price of the stock! (That is almost a direct quote from a VP of a very large company.) Now, all is well and good until you realize that when the price of the stock goes up, the shareholder sells and no longer cares about the company. BUT, THE NEW SHAREHOLDER EXPECTS THE STOCK TO RISE. It's a really vicious circle.

Mike,
I too used to be a believer of Craftsman tools, However of late, the quality has gone down the tubes! The tools are not what they used to be, not even close. While passing through Sears I was looking at a table saw a few weeks back. The cost seemed to be in the $600+ range, but I may be wrong. Also a few weeks ago, Junior's Tools had a Delta Platinum 10" Contractor's saw with Biesmeyer fence and 50" table for less than $900. If you have to, load up your Visa and take a Delta home.

Rich

[Don E.]

Well guys, I guess I'm an exception to the rule here. I had a Craftsman TS for over 20 yrs. and it did the job for me. I added a XL24x24 fence, balanced pullys and a link belt, bought some good blades and built a lot of nice furniture and cabinets with that old saw. I could balance a nickel on it with no problem and the new fence was great, repeatable and accurate. Granted, the tilt mechanism sucked, the miter gage was barely tolorable and dust collection was non existant. Spent about $300 on it, but it worked. 6 months ago I bought a new G1023Z cabinet saw which is excellant and sold my old Craftsman for $250 with no problem. The Griz is an excellant unit and no comparison with the Craftsman but my old Craftsman worked just the same. Looking at todays Craftsman, they haven't changed much except for the prices, still lacks good quality but they serve a purpose for the homeowner and occasional weekend woodworker.
To the guy that just bought one: It will work for you, just learn about all it's qirks and limitations and adjust to them and it will do just fine. Good luck.
Don E.

[MadMark]

The core point is that you bought it *20 years* ago. At that time they were still making quality. But ever since they shifted to "the softer side of Sears" hard goods like tools have taken a back seat and the quality dropped thru the floor.

M

[Lou_williams]

Lets see, You paid 300 for a new fence and about 25 for a link belt, new good pullys cost another 25, Put in the cost of wasted stock finding the little problems and issues with the sears saw say another 50. Add the 600 he just paid for a piece of junk, and it is the same price as a 3 hp cabinet saw with a great fence and no real issues with learning its problems.

Also I looked at the sears saw a few months ago. I was in a sears with my daugher who was looking for stuff to decorate a dorm room. The TS I saw was direct drive. It was like someone put a router on its side and was going run a 10 saw blade with a router. What used to be cast Iron was not cheep steel. I don't think the saw would be able to keep an alignment.

The quality is much lower than when you bought yours, and evne when I bought mine 31 years ago I spend enough to make it a good tool that I could have Bought TWO CABINET Saws for the same money.

[John]

All of us have a responsibility to require quality in our tools. The manufacturers will find corners to cut with every new run of machines; if sales don't drop on that product, they'll make some more cuts (i.e. "no one noticed when we switched the knob on that joiner from steel to plastic, so why don't we make the outfeed table plastic too!").

If it sucks don't buy it. For Christmas the wife said I could have a new router. There's only two stores in Chicago that carry routers bigger than 3hp. Sears and Berland's. Berland's closes before I can get there at night, making it really tempting to just get one from Sears. But I know I must remain vigilent, fight the good fight...all that happy horse s___. I'll take a day off if I have to; I'm not going to let Sears think they can put out crap and we'll take it.

That being said, any table saw beats the elbow grease alternative. Speech over, enjoy your new saw!

John

[ed]

But who makes Sear's stuff?
I took a quick look yesterday, two low end saws - $400-469 looked like a Ryobi and a other one was a Ridgid, looked just like the Ryobi and Ridgid in Home Depot.

Are these Sera's Ryobis different from the Ryobi brand itself??

[MadMark]

Yes. Ryobi is making the tools to Sears *specifications*. Sears seems to be specifying "minimum cost" instead of "maximum quality".

M

[John]

Mark has it dead on. It's just like with computers. Sure, Gateway uses Intel motherboards, but they're a far cry from the ones in Intel's own machines.

The exception is the BT3000, which to my eye, comparing them 10 minutes apart (the Ryobi BT3000 and the Craftsman BT3000 that is), they are exactly identical.

John

[Lou_williams]

But, compairing them with a router on its side with a larger shaft and I don't see any differences.

The BT3000 I saw looked like it was a router motor. Not what I would want in a table saw!

[David]

I just bought a 20 year old powermatic 66 i need more tools and i've never seen a unisaw for $900 Where is juniors tools do they have a web site
Dave

[Lou_williams]

try woodquip.com for used tools. There are lots of links in thw wood links area, and even th marketplace here has some good listings.

Hope this helps. I don't know what your are refering to with Jr but try looking up n yahoo for a name you re interested.

[rrich]

David,
Junior's is mostly in Southern California. The one I stopped at is near Warner Avenue and the 55 freeway on Ritchey Street in Santa Ana. The saw is a Platinum Edition CONTRACTORS saw with a right extension table and a 50" Biesmeyer fence for about $900. They have a web page but I don't think that they are willing to ship a table saw.

The url is www.juniorstools.com and as soon as you go to buy online you are transfered to http://www.orcoonline.com/.

Rich