What Kind Of Power Do I need...?

[Cody Colston]

In a perfect world, I would go with a 200 amp load center coming off a dedicated service line/meter. Not only will you have more power than you will likely ever need, you will also be able to track the power usage of your shop...handy if you ever start a commercial operation there.

I couldn't do that with my shop because it is too far off the road. I would have been forced to clear a 40' wide R.O.W. for the overhead line and a transformer near the shop.

I couldn't force myself to give up my trees, so I share power with the house.

Cody

[ol]

The expert at anything was once a beginner...

[/ol]

[Sawdust78]

You look like you're in a vey good position to run separate power, since it looks like you wouldn't need a pole set in your yard. That was a concern for my shop, it was JUST close enough to do it without a pole. Since I had a completely blank slate building the shop, I was able to move the meter down the wall some to get within the limit. I would spend the few hundred and run the separate power in your situation. Besides, too much power is better than too little ;)

[Al_Rivard]

Cody/Al

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to go ahead and put in the 200 amp service. Besides being able to see the seperate power use between the house and the shop is there any reason to put in a seperate meter?

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well... way back, most stuff was done with human power. Much of that was slavery, folks unlucky enough to get captured by an opposing army and such.
Then donkeys, oxen, and horses came into play. Beasts of burdon.
Then steam power came of age and was all the rage for a long while.
That is until some smart allic's came up with the new fangle stuff called elek-trick-chitty. Black magic stuff that you couldn't smell or see but if you touched it, WOW!
And we're still using that crap to do stuff. So maybe your best bet would be to use that elek-trick-chitty stuff.
And the people said, "Hummmmmmmmmmmmm......."

OK, Al....
So what do you really think you are doing?
It is pretty appearant your new shop is gonna be attached to the house back there.
Have you done any homework about it yet? An entire meter base/panel is gonna be pretty expensive, all told, compared to a sub-panel.
What does the house have now? Why not upgrade the house to 200 amps, then run a sub-panel feed from there to the shop? That way you aren't
Referance you over here: [link:http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/D...D4/2331.html#8 | Mo Fo you're head.]
I run some pretty high horse power chit in my shop for a one man band, and I do it all with a 50 amp feed from a 100 amp main panel through a sub-panel in my shop.
And I've been playing with all sorts of electricity for most of my life.

Now you can do whatever you want, No skin offen my butt.
But.... you go spending an extry 1-2K $ for a panel and service that's W-A-Y over sized for your shop, and that's a few tools you'll be waitin a while to get.
The electrical contractor don't care. The Mo U spend, the MO he makes, as in MO-ney. You moan, he makes bank.

Think about it... ;)


:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds] http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/vortex_smiley.gif
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!

[h3]The real problem is the fool behind the tool.[/h3] :o*
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[Al_Rivard]

Sonny,

Thanks, let me repeat what I said at the start of this thread, I don’t know nothing bout dis stuff! I don’t want to overkill, but I don’t want to be lacking power in a few years either. If a sub-panel will do the job and save money that’s probably where I need to be heading with it. I just went and looked at the panel in the house and the main is labeled “200A”, I’m guessing that’s 200 amps. It’s a rather small panel and doesn’t have any free breakers, it’s all filled up. So to make this clear in my mind, you’re saying I just need to run a sub panel from it to the shop? I want to have at least couple of dedicated 220 outlets for the DC and air compressor and then a few more for the equipment. As I’m a 1-man game I won’t be running more one motor at a time with the exception of the DC and air compressor. Will the sub panel affect the house, like dimming lights etc.?

I do need to get some new toys to put into the new shop so I don’t want to spend money for something I won’t need, but on the other hand I want it right the first time.

[Sawdust78]

I did all my service entry install by myself, cost about 400-500 dollars for everything. I'm not sure what a contractor would charge, but it wouldn't even be a one day job for someone experienced. If you're going to have a contractor do it either way(separate service or a sub-panel), call one and have them quote doing it both ways, then decide from there.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Al,
200A is indeed a 200 amp main circuit breaker. Lots of power available right there.
Full panel? Not a huge problem, usually. You see, they make these things called wafer breakers that take one space, but can serve (protect) two seperate circuits of 120 volt power.
Two of those installed by your electrical contractor can open up two spaces for a sub-panel feed circuit breaker (240 volt). There's your 240 volt supply hot legs for your new sub panel.
Now a neutral (white wire) and a ground wire (green or bare copper) and you have everything for a 240/120 sub panel for your new shop.
Routing the conduit, flex, or whatever cable raceway is permissable in your area gives a place for the wires (4) to run from your homes main panel, to your shops sub panel (probably via the attic).
Provided the wires in that raceway are sized properly for the sub panel, none to very little electrical disturbance (lights dimming, etc.) should be seen in the home when you start or stop equipment in the shop.
(Not even my 7 HP compressor causes any dimming in the house circuits here, for example, when it cycles.) (It does, however, wake up the wife if I forgot to turn it off. :o I hear about that usually the next day. ;) )
Now if you were to desire to monitor the shops power requirements for business accounting, that might be a different thing where you would want to have a sepperate supply and meter billing altogether.
Personally, it isn't enough to fuss about for me. We have a 2 HP pool pump and central air conditioning that, IMHO, is a far bigger power bill burdon than my intermittant shop equipment is, even on a busy day.
So see about that approch to your shop, Condensing some of the home circuits, setting a sub panel feed CB and the run for the shop, then a sub panel big enough to grow with you, as desired.
You can put in a 100 or 125 amp sub panel for the extra space it offers and feed it with a smaller CB back at the main house panel, like a 60 amp circuit. (# 6 wire (60 amp), far cheaper than say #2 (100 amp), or 1/0 (125 amp) Depending on insulation type and local ordinances.)
But Ya don't need, nor would ever see the cost return, on a huge service for your shop. See what the electrical guy sez. But honest ingine, I get by with a lot less with no problems at all. (Save for the 18" bandsaw tripping a couple of times on 120 volts.)

And each CB in a panel is there to protect the wire it serves, nothing else. Your motors are protected of their own accord. The CB is to make sure the wire isn't loaded to an unsafe level where the insulation would melt off or catch fire or cause a fire.
If you add all the CB's in your main home panel together, you'll be surprised to see something in the range of 300-400 or maybe more amps worth of various CB's tapped off that 200 amp main.
And with some basics, you could wire up stuff in that beautiful big new shop you are making and be confident in yourself about it.
No sweat, Al. Because down the road things in the shop will likely be rearranged, or new equipment added, and you could do the wiring from your shops panel to the new tool if and where needed. :7


:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds] http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/vortex_smiley.gif
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!

[h3]The real problem is the fool behind the tool.[/h3] :o*
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/...es/dumfart.jpg

[BaldEagle]

You should beable to run a line off of your meeter base, if there is an empty space on the panel there. Running a 50 amp service to your shop should be plenty for your needs. I would run all the motors on 220 v. if they can be run on 220, and a dedicated line for each.

The motors on your equip should not affect your power to the house, (ref. dimming lights), that should not be a problem unless they have a problem.

I have a dedicated circut for all my saws that run on 220, and the rest of my equip is on 115, and seperate breakers for different circuts.


BaldEagle

[Super Ry]

HOWDY there - I followed Sonneys and Lou's (where and how the heck is he anywho) advice on the Sub a while back and am VERY happy with my set up.

Figure on what you'll need to be runnign at the same time and add some amps on that. Ex. Dust Collector, table saw, lights, radio :), and heating / cooling, maybe an odd ball compressor automatically kickin on, then some added cushion. Figurin 60 to 100 amps is plenty o juice. I opted for 100 amp sub as the beloved shop space may transition to a living space after we move out. Sort of makes the house pleasing to the landlord type buyers.

Looks like you got a great spot there - ENJOY!!!

[Sonny Edmonds]

"I opted for 100 amp sub as the beloved shop space may transition to a living space....."

Scared me there Ry, I thought you was in the dog house for sure!
(Not that living in the shop is a bad thing, but remember what happened to Panik's pee-pee and the Unisaw. I'd much rather to soak it in cider.) :7
LMAO! :7

:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds] http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/vortex_smiley.gif
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!

[h3]The real problem is the fool behind the tool.[/h3] :o*
http://home.earthlink.net/~sonnypie/...es/dumfart.jpg