Can lacquer be used over gel stain containing urethane

**WhiteyO** · 04-17-2006, 07:57 AM

This was a e-mail letter I sent to DEFT company.They have not gotten back to me yet.Can someone reply to this guestion?

I have just finished a Grandfather clock using " General Finishes ' Gel Stain , Wipe On Urethane. I want to use your Clear Wood Finish spray lacquer, but I am very concerned about the problem of finish lifting . Your products guide says this could happen to polyurethane, and gel stain used has urethane . Need your advice !

**cabinetman** · 04-17-2006, 09:28 AM

I'm a believer in tradition. It's been my practice to use only like materials together. There's kinda a rule that you can put most anything on top of lacquer, but not lacquer on oil bases. Oil bases can be used on top of lacquer. Lacquer is very weird. It seems to have properties even after it dries. The curing (long term) properties of an oil base (varnishes) and the urethanes are totally different than that of lacquer. If you have to finish over a finish, one method is to use both mineral spirits and lacquer thinner on an unobtrusive place. Mineral spirits will not remove dried lacquer finishes. Both mineral spirits and lacquer will remove oil bases. Some sanding sealers work well over oil base stains, with a lacquer topcoat. Lacquer does not fare well with water based polyurethanes.

**TDHofstetter** · 04-17-2006, 10:24 AM

You should be able to do it fine, provided you put down at least one coat of shellac between 'em.

-- Tim --

Free association
Please take only
ONE

**Glen** · 04-18-2006, 05:40 AM

Varnish, as I understand it, is oft used between coats of unlike materials. This bit of wisdom comes from a Fine Woodworking publication. I do however take issue with this because I don't believe a barrier of varnish is durable. Perhaps because the varnish has no exposure to the elements it's less likely to break down. Just don't have faith in the adhesive properties of varnish when bonding to another material. Anyway just thought I'd throw this into the "mix" - ok, that was bad.

Glen

**srpoly** · 04-18-2006, 09:24 AM

I'll go out on a limb and say that you'll probably be fine. The urethane in the stain isn't enough quantity to cause you concern. It most likely has not created a heavy film that would actually lift. I would avoid a real heavy build on the first coat of lacquer, and let it flash off very well between coats. Since your clock is mostly comprised of verticle surfaces, it should flash off quickly which is in your favor.

**WhiteyO** · 04-19-2006, 06:34 AM

This is the answer that lacquer Company gave me.I also read that lacquer shoud not be applied on any surface that dries by oxidation.On the otherhand ,stain Company said it would be o.k. Who would you believe? I'm trusting this Lab Technician's answer.

Barry, don't use it, it will indeed wrinkle what you have on there now.

Dave Beadnell

Lab Technician

Deft Inc.

Alliance,Ohio

1-800-458-3338

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry P Otto [mailto:botto1@adelphia.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:27 AM
To: tsales@deftfinishes.com
Subject: Lacquer or not

I have just finished a Grandfather clock using " General Finishes ' Gel Stain , Wipe On Urethane. I want to use your Clear Wood Finish spray lacquer, but I am very concerned about the problem of finish lifting . Your products guide says this could happen to polyurethane, and gel stain used has urethane . Need your advice

**srpoly** · 04-19-2006, 09:14 AM

Even though I'd probably try it...
If I were you, I wouldn't argue with the Deft guy!

**Howard Acheson** · 04-20-2006, 02:31 PM

As long as the oil based finish if fully cured for a year or so, you can put a lacquer over it. Anything less and the thinners in lacquer will cause the oil finish to react and wrinkle. After the oil based finish has cured 3-4 weeks, you can apply a barrier coat of shellac and then overcoat the shellac with lacquer.

Now the question, why do you want to do this? Poly varnish is a more durable and tougher finish than lacquer. Lacquer is brittle and easily scratched.

**WhiteyO** · 06-02-2010, 09:11 AM

I have decided to use Minwax spray Polyurethane on the outside and brush on poly for the inside the clock.Grandfather clock has 6 glass viewing places so inside needed to be finely finished also. Costing over $3500.00 and all the hours of work has caused this to be a major concern. Here are some pictures of the clock from the companies website