Posting for someone....

[Sonny Edmonds]

That's one of the reasons I like using CA glue to stabilize the woods I turn.
What that appears to be to me is the transitional end grain that is difficult to work without stabilizing it with something like CA, which soaks in and solidifys the end grain area so the tools can cut it more cleanly, or shear it without tearing it out.
Even at that, sometimes it takes extreemly light passes to overcome the tendencies of these end grain areas to "self-distruct", or flat out sanding to abrade them to a smooth appearance.
That's where power sanding can help a great deal.
I usually find that turning at a higher speed helps to achieve a better surface with these areas as well.
So that's a couple of things to consider. :7

:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds]
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"I was raised around lead based paint.
It ain't an excuse, just a fact."

[Sawduster]

When I first started doing pens I used a couple old ratty bench chisels and a round nose scraper that hadn't ever been sharpened. I learned to turn the wood down to within about an eighth of an inch of the finished size then sanding the remainder and got some pretty nice pens out of it. Then I got some real lathe chisels and found that with sharpening and something a-kin to some proper technique I could save some time and turn pens down to within a sixteenth of an inch of the finished size before sanding everything smooth. The I learned from books and websites, to say nothing of the great info here, how to follow the ABCs of turning, and got a feel for "sharp" and started turning some stuff other than pens. The point of this is that with enough sand paper you can make really good stuff on the lathe using a streambed rock to do the initial turning.

I would say to Michael that he needs to look to both technique and real sharpness.

[BuLLiTT]

Hey Sonny:
At what point do you make use of the CA glue? What stage on the lathe do you apply it, how do you apply it, and where can I get some? Give me the skills Sonny-san hehe.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Joe,
Well, good question. My answer would be anytime the wood needs it.
If a piece of wood starts tearing out on me, I will soak some CA into it. Usually at lowest RPM, and I like to use those examination type gloves like doctors offices use to apply the CA.
Or if the piece is still pretty rough, I'll just let it soak into the troublesome areas and after it catillizes, continue turning with the tools with light cuts. Or if it is closer to what I want, power sanding then sanding with hand-held abrasives.
I order my CA through our very own Marc, "Woodmangler". woodmangler@yahoo.com I got started using the CA early on when I began making pens, and then found it was a great stabilizer for just the sort of problematic woods and segmented turnings where the grain of the wood might be any which way.
I usually use the thin and the thicker stuff (like syrup), but mostly the thin stuff for penitration into the woods. The thicker stuff for glueing applications.
And I started off with the type Marc sells. Then tried some of the pricier brands, and came back to the Balsa USA brand because it works the best.
The fumes from CA will knock your socks off, though. So I use my DC system to suck the fumes away from the area of the lathe when using it. So some sort of a fan is recommended to get the fumes away from you, at least. Makes my eye's water, to say the least. :P

But CA is a modern type of glue that I have welcomed into my woodworking endevors. I've even used it to repair small voids in shop made moldings, and for gluing moldings in place.
As a finish on pens, or any turnings for that matter, it can make a very beautiful and lasting finish when sanded down to very fine grits and a wax used over it.
Most recently, just pure carnuba wax after sanding to 3600 grit has helped me get a mirror like finish on turnings.
But not just me, my Son-in-law very recently turned a bowl and made a stuningly beautiful small bowl with his first attempt using a lathe. Same method as I use, applying the CA, working it down and sanding it smooth, then spinning on the carnuba wax.

But the best part is how it soaks in and stabilizes the wood, and particularly the inevitable end grain that is tough to work with in almost any turning. Or wild grain that is found in figured woods.
Which many of us love so much.
And troublesome turnings, just like Michael's. :7

:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds]
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"I was raised around lead based paint.
It ain't an excuse, just a fact."

[Dave Daniel]

I hope you're not using your pen tools on a bowl attempt - that will give the results you're seeing. There's a big difference between a spindle tool and a bowl tool.

As far as "stabilizing" the wood, I don't have the time or money to spend on doing that versus using the right tools. In other words, the right tools and cut will give clean results needing very little abrasives.

From the pictures, it looks like the tool isn't slicing the wood as it should. A slicing cut is accomplished with the right grind angle so the tool can be positioned properly, and a lot of technique.

[Sonny Edmonds]

So Dave,
Everybody is screwed up but Dave. And nobody knows how to turn but Dave. And nobody can sharpen their tools as good as Dave.
Dave, you are a pompas a$$.
Instead of your inuendos, why don't you try expounding a bit.
Or is all that you do is to toss darts?
Hummm, Dave?
There's lots of ways to skin a cat.

:D

[link:www.sonnyedmonds.com | Sonny Edmonds]
"Precision Firewood Specialist"
God Bless America !
One Nation Under God!
"I was raised around lead based paint.
It ain't an excuse, just a fact."

[Dave Daniel]

Gosh, you're throwing out a lot of energy there. I've never been regarded as pompass by anyone.

What's behind this? Humm, musta been something I said that hit a hot button somewhere.

I don't want anyone thinking poorly of me, especially on a post where someone is seeking MY opinion of what's going on. Give me a phone call if you wish to get this calmed down - this isn't the place.

[WoodMangler]

Ah well...Uhh... let's see here... how should I phrase this eh....

Hmmm...

Well... Dave... Here's how I see it...

The fellow who's email I posted has turned his first bowl, and has a lot of tearout... I think it's fine to have the rather lofty goal of making cuts so perfectly that an abrasive isn't needed, or to be such a wonderful wielder of a bowl gouge that soft punky wood is sliced cleanly...

however....

.... for the rest of us mere mortals here and on every other forum I visit, it's a standard practice to stabilize the wood with CA, or other mixtures from 50/50 lacquer to thinned down elmers glue and on and on....

"Not having the time to use a stabilizing agent" is an interesting statement considering the length of time it must have taken for you to reach such a unbelievable level of expertise that stabilizers are not needed...

As to the tone of your post.... you should be able to judge that for yourself eh....

"From the pictures, it looks like the tool isn't slicing the wood as it should. A slicing cut is accomplished with the right grind angle so the tool can be positioned properly, and a lot of technique."

Take a peek at what ya posted, then consider that all of us here use a stabilizer of some sort, so the inference would be that we all have the wrong tool, the wrong grind, positioned improperly, and lousy technique...

If that's not what ya meant, then this could easily be one of the many instances where the typed word fell short of relaying the posters true meaning.... Hey, happens to me all the time :)

Ball is in your court Dave.... :)

[Dave Daniel]

Sheesh guys. You're reading an awful lot into what I wrote.

My post made a few observations and a few statements.

First, if this turner is turning pens (and is new, as you now say), he's likely got spindle tools - this is unsafe and impractical for bowl turning and will lead to the results seen in the pictures.

Second. Regarding stabilizing, the only area I've ever used ca glue on is to secure or fill a knot. When I spend at most 20 to 30 minutes from mounting the blank to a completed piece, stopping to ca the whole surface is a waste (besides ca is expensive). Yeah, I tear out a lot of wood on roughing and general profile, but a few light cuts with a deep flute gouge running a shearing cut (flute facing parallel to the wood) usually eliminates it.

So stop this mere mortal crap and flames about my post, and stop reading into my posts beyond what I typed. The tone of my post? Please. Also, fyi, I emailed Sonny asking what's got his goat about my post so I could try to resolve this, along with my original reply to his calling me an ##### (thank you very much). I have yet to hear anything. I sincerely don't want friction and want to be able to cleanly post threads and repsonses without fear of childish flames.

If you don't want my input and maybe learn something from me (as I learn from you and others), then tell me, and I'll move on. You can still go to my website and glean some techniques as I add the articles back in.

Kinda interesting that I'm being lofted up beyond mere mortal status. I'll have to tell my doctor about that one.

[WoodMangler]

"Sheesh guys. You're reading an awful lot into what I wrote."

Very possible indeed... and it does happen occasionally. I had a very good friend here named Dano who came across as very pompous indeed... and I was right... he sounded pompous .... and I was wrong... he wasn't pompous at all... I miss him and hope he returns soon...

I don't want to repeat the mistake I made by judging Dano... life's too short... so I'll just say thanks for answering, and let's get on with turning :)

... and Sonny?.... he's a real man who will admit mistakes... and he does believe in shaking the trees occasionally just to see if the nuts will bounce when, and if they fall ;)

I look forward to your input here....